Deep Space and Dragons
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Deep Space and Dragons
Episode 97: Prequel Pitfalls and Geometrical Strategy Games, including Triangles, but sadly no Rhombuses
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Could a prequel really spoil your favorite series or enhance it in unexpected ways? Join us as Richard, claiming his comedic superpowers, and Karl, steadfast in his ancient wisdom, navigate the quirky universe of "Richard and Karl Present Deep Space and Dragons." We share our thoughts on problematic narrative tropes, using "Dexter" and its prequel "Original Sin" as our case study. From there, the discussion morphs into a critique of storytelling techniques across various shows, including the moral dilemmas in "Hunter x Hunter" and the complex character alignments in "Gundam." We also ponder the potential pitfalls in the world of TV apps and streaming—because who hasn't been frustrated by a buffering circle at the worst possible moment?
Our love for strategy games takes the spotlight next as we explore the addictive allure of grid-based gameplay. We marvel at the unique mechanics of series like Disgaea and Fire Emblem, while also critiquing games that veer too close to gacha territory without the thrill of the machine. The discussion dances from the potential transformation of classic games into modern freemium models to the surprising social aspects of co-op gameplay in titles like Wargroove. Even as we game on, we can't help but contemplate starting a book club focused on indie literature, celebrating the creativity and depth found in Canadian works and the potential for unique literary adventures.
Also what if it rained Nic Cages? Funny or apocalyptic?
Follow all things Richard and Karl, and check out "The Minuet of Sorcery"
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Deep Space and Dragons Podcast Discussion
Speaker 1Good evening. Yes, I have made it evening, I have moved the sun and welcome to Richard and Carl present Deep Space and Dragons. I'm Richard, with Newfound Powers.
Speaker 2And I am Carl, with the same powers that I found millennia ago.
Speaker 1Excellent, and this is our podcast, where we talk about stuff and, based on our viewing metrics, we have no idea what people vibe with and what they don't. So we're just going to talk at you and, since you've made it this far, kudos. So what's new in the Carlverse? Is it an unrelated movie review?
Speaker 2No, not an unrelated movie review. If our listeners knew you as Vlad, I would call this segment Vlad's Vindication.
Speaker 1Actually, to be fair, they now know me as Vlad, because everything we say is public record on the internet and we do in fact get Vlad's Vindication, which is a sick segment. Could you imagine if we had the budget for an actual late night show?
Speaker 2Ah, that'd be wild, okay so last week I was talking about Dexter, which is a show that you absolutely do not care about because you've never seen it, or anything.
Speaker 1Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 2But the reason I was talking about Dexter is because my fiancé and I had started watching the prequel show Original Sin and, as you say, most prequels don't really gain anything from being a prequel. They're better off just being their own unique show. So firstly, minor update I've also been reading the first book in the series called Darkly Dreaming Dexter. The series called Darkly Dreaming Dexter and it goes over to this point where Dexter's adopted father is being drugged by a nurse who is also a serial, happens to be a serial killer and kills her patients by over-doping them, over-medicating them. I guess is more so. That came straight from the book, which I thought was actually pretty interesting. But between last week and this week the show managed to do two things which made me lose faith. Last week I was optimistic, this week I'm not. Ha, the first thing is kind of a minor uh annoyance, um, but television shows and movies often have a villain who will remove their mask for the audience oh, yeah, yeah, oh man, our pals at tv tropes.
Speaker 1We know there has to be a name for that right Like oh, the number of times I've seen this.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the kind of thing you don't really notice until it's been pointed out. But once it's been pointed out to you it almost breaks the suspension of disbelief. So the villain first off, he was alluded to be this police captain. He was alluded to be this police captain, and then the show felt this week that they needed to outright confirm that he was in fact the villain by having him go into the room with the child that had been kidnapped. And then he takes one of the child's possessions and then, for some reason, he stands up, the kid's asleep, because he's been had fed like sleeping medicine. So the kid's asleep, and for some reason, uh, the police captain just like yeah, I'm just going to take off my mask. Who am I taking off for? Why did I have it on the first place? No, this is for the audience. The audience needs to know for sure.
Speaker 1So needs to know for sure. So that trope is funny because when you do it in front of another character it's just dumb, but I have seen it done good before. So to go to hunter, hunter of all things, there's a bit where it's like a sock is one of the spiders and he has a shower and in the shower he takes off his temporary fake spider tattoo and applies a new one and I'm like, yeah, you can show the audience your face below the mask if they're like going to bed or going into the shower or something Right, like in a situation where it would like Char. The first time you see Char Aznable take off his mask is he's literally man. Original Gundam had like an insane number of gratuitous sex scenes Sorry, shower scenes for 1970s, not sex scenes that I'm aware of. But yeah, like the trope of let the audience in on it because, ooh, I get that extra layer of suspense is finally, don't have a character out their entire evil plan by doing it.
Speaker 2Well, so I mean the villain does out his evil plan by doing it. He is alone in the room with the kidnapped child, who happens to actually be his son, because that's part of the twist. I don't know exactly what his evil plan is. I think he's just trying to create a vendetta against the cartel, but it was just I broke my suspension of disbelief a little bit that it's like he took his mask off for the audience. Why right?
Speaker 1but like you see what I mean, where I guess a writing device, like if you have Obito being all emo and he takes his mask off in front of Rin's grave so we can see his messed up face. It's a little bit different, because then it's like cinematic versus, it's like it's in the description instead of being in the prose or dialogue hmm, uh, but the second, more egregious thing that it did that.
Speaker 2This is where I kind of actually am losing hope. Um, the first season of Virginal Dexter, uh, and also the first book of Virginal Dexter, and also the first book, revolves around Dexter discovering that he has an older brother who also witnessed the murder of their mother. So they're both psychopaths or sociopaths. Not psychopaths, well, I mean, they're kind of psychopaths because they both end up being serial killers, but one ends up having a moral code. Lawful evil for sure. Dexter is straight lawful evil because he has a moral code. It just definitely involves killing people, anyways.
Speaker 1I still remember when a player of mine burned down a bar and declared it was lawful good because that's the society they're from, and I realized that alignment grids don't work anymore.
Speaker 2Anyways. But so Dexter discovers that he has an older brother and the older brother is leaving him cryptic messages in the forms of dead bodies.
Speaker 1You know, my. Dramonic Backstory actually mellowed me out a lot. Please continue.
Prequel Pitfalls and TV App Frustrations
Speaker 2Anyways. So the whole first season is kind of like he doesn't know, he's forgotten that he has an older brother and he's trying to solve this serial killer murder. That's there. They're clearly leaving him specifically messages.
Speaker 1Pause for a moment. Imagine just being able to forget you have an older brother. Just imagine that for a second.
Speaker 2Well, in context, dexter's mom was hacked up with a chainsaw in a shipping container and then the two children were just left sitting there in pools of blood from all the other people who had also been hacked up with a chainsaw in a shipping container. Uh, and then the two children were like just left sitting there in pools of blood from all the other people who had also been hacked up with chainsaws.
Speaker 2It's pretty gruesome uh anyway, I'm just saying there's some days where I'm like that would be convenient levels of repression but the point of the matter is that they dedicate a whole season and they make it very clear that Dexter does not remember he has an older brother. Yeah, so in the prequel of this episode, the father Harry, he is investigating these, the series of murders. Mostly it's been like street workers, so pizza delivery drivers Got it.
Speaker 1Mostly it's been like street workers, so pizza delivery drivers Got it.
Speaker 2In any event, they decide that those three murders are the work of a serial killer. And then they follow up on a lead and, wouldn't you know it, harry finds the older brother's psychiatric file, because one of the victims was a nurse at the psychiatric hospital where the brother went after the murder. Um and Dexter can't find out, and the police force can't find out that Harry has been suppressing information about this random, unrelated murder is another serial killer that happens to be the brother of our main character, which will also be the main plot point of the first season of the main show oh, that reminds me of a meme bit, where it's like someone goes like yeah, it's like one in a hundred thousand people are serial killers, and then the person b goes well, I feel safe, because what are the mathematic odds that we're both serial killers?
Speaker 2In any event, the best way to describe it is that they're connecting too many dots and the plot line that they're setting up is basically dead before it even begins. And I was just like, oh man, I had such high hopes because this police captain kidnapping his own son so that he could exact revenge on the cartel, or whatever his plan actually is. That was an interesting twist that I didn't see coming, and I was hopeful that the series was going to be much more interesting, and then actually no, they're just connecting too many dots and everyone has met each other. I'm like 99% sure that Dexter and his older brother, brian, are going to meet each other face-to-face in this season and not realize it.
Speaker 1Well, it reminds me of the show Gotham, which had this problem. When you use an IP IP you need to show off the established characters. So in Gotham it's like oh yeah, kid, Bruce Wayne met every future Batman villain and I'm like that is literally insane. None of them have names yet, but he met all of them and it's like that seems impossible.
Speaker 2So I wouldn't say that Dexter Original Sin has gone quite that far off the deep end, but it's teetering on the edge of, like I say, connecting too many dots that don't have any payoff.
Speaker 1To be fair, the only group that believes they're allowed to discriminate based on the origin of people's birth are astrologists and they love connecting dots for no reason. It's something that was bugging me lately where I'm like you take something an astrologist says like ooh, you better not date a Gemini and you replace that with any diversity statement whatsoever and that's a terrible person, like anyone who's? Openly an astrologist. You shouldn't hang out with openly an astrologist because they'll be like can't date a Gemini.
Speaker 1I'm like, imagine if you used a color, any color, instead of the word Gemini there.
Speaker 2Anyways, but so I mean that ended up being a little bit longer than I hoped. But there you go Vlad's Vindication. This prequel series has taken a bad turn.
Speaker 1I mean, you hit it at a clean ten minutes and we talked more about tropes than we did about See. The thing about this Flash movie reviews is it's you reviewing a movie I haven't seen out of nowhere, which means we can't really banter about it, right? So like if you phrase it in like oh don't you hate XYZ, trope boom, we have banter. Yes, yes, I'm giving you director notes mid-episode. I'm a terrible person.
Speaker 2I regret nothing about this chain of events well, see, the other thing that's new with me, which is uh more interesting and up your alley uh, is that I've been watching the daily life of the immortal king it's so good, it is unreasonably good.
Speaker 1Oh, next week, next week, we could do that episode unreasonably good. It has my favorite three jokes of all time oh you'll get there when you get there okay, um, well, the I.
Speaker 2I feel like I did myself a disservice for the first season because I was casting it from my phone onto my TV, which seems like the right choice. Except the Android TV Crunchyroll app is just inferior to the to the Android phone app. Yeah, yeah, it is, you're not wrong.
Speaker 1So the Android phone app. Yeah, yeah it is, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2So the TV app won't let you skip the intro and it won't let you skip the credits. I mean you can just manually skip over it, but it doesn't have a clean button for it.
Speaker 1I will say at one point in that show they do a very good credits bit, but other than that it's. I see your struggle.
Speaker 2Well, my main thing is that for the entire first season there may have been after credit scenes and from what I've seen in the second season, these after credit scenes are like additional jokes or payoffs for things that happened in the episode, or just little snippets of information, and it's like I don't think I missed anything like truly valuable but also.
Speaker 1but I'm a little bit sad. Yeah, Like I said, it has some surprisingly good intro and outro bits. It works in once in a while.
Speaker 2So yeah, I.
Speaker 1I unreasonably love that show Like unreasonably love that show like unreasonably. There's a bit where they make a ray tracing joke and I just could not, could not comprehend.
Speaker 2They went that direction with it uh, at first I didn't get the uh, the 30, 60 joke such a good joke I've knocked over 30 of our lamps. What difference is 30 lamps gonna make? And then he breaks the 30-60 anyways. So I mean, yeah, that's what's new with me. You get vindication twice actually, cause you recommended the show to me. That's actually good. And you told me Dexter Original Sin was going to be a bland prequel show and well, because I can't make it more than a week without throwing shade at Boruto.
Speaker 1It's like sequels and prequels are usually owned by the company and not created by the artists and instead of going to like good fanfic artists, they're like focus group made and they miss that secret sauce that, like AI, can't replicate the. What is this about? Right, if you made a prequel, you can do it, but it has to be about something.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1And it's hard to be about something when the story hasn't happened yet, and the only really good way you can make a prequel is to follow somebody else who didn't do a lot in the main show, so their arc can happen off screen, right right right for example, if you were to watch Kenshin's backstory as a prequel which I kind of did weirdly, even though it technically goes in the series proper it was sick, because that's a good story arc. Also prequels. Typically will only work if you do a movie or a mini-arc.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1JJK0 almost worked because we didn't know who Yuta was. It's like you did it in the chronological order, I did it in the intended order and I don't know which one's better.
Speaker 2Well, chronological order set my expectations for what the show was vastly different. I think the way that it was actually released is probably better, because Yuta does so little for so long. I think the way that it was actually released is probably better because Yuta does so little for so long and then when he does introduce, he's suddenly a huge main character and I think that placing his storyline MCU ass decision I've ever heard, by the way, being like let's pull it.
Speaker 1So what's more MCU than being like okay, iron Man's the main character of this movie, thor's the main character of this one. Now we're gonna do a Captain America movie where Iron Man's the main character. Like of all the MCU-ass bullshit. Pulling in characters because they're more popular from other media to then get a little big chunk of screen time in a different piece of media.
Speaker 2It's so bad. When they do it so bad, don't like. But yeah, I think that the way that they released it theatrically probably actually fits the arc better because they, you know, introduced the character and then he actually has all of his important stuff where the way it was written. They introduced the character and then he's has all of his important stuff where the way it was written. They introduced the character and then he's just gone for like 100 chapters.
Speaker 1Yup, like gone's dad.
Speaker 2But I don't did I ask you what's new with you thereard?
Speaker 1I, uh, I think I rambled on about how you have vindicated I mean, I prefer that like, yeah, it's just an hour of me being praised for being right, sign me up so. So, other than like my normal activities of going to writing workshops of authors, like my extremely busy semester I've had by going to all these writing workshops with authors da-da-da-da-da, my extremely busy semester I've had by going to all these writing workshops and events and things. So I keep having these little synergy moments this semester, which have been fun. So the science fiction scene in Canada, ontario, isn't actually that many people.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1So I think I mentioned that like one of my professors. When I was doing slush pile reading, I read one of their stories for a magazine they'd sent in before they were my professor.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1So I did a reading in class today and I look at the reading. I'm like, oh, I know this person we've been chatting for like the last two years, so I send the message to be like, look who worked their way into a curriculum. And then the person's like, oh is so, and so teaching it. I'm like, what is there? Only like four people like I was so amused by this notion of being like here's your readings for this class and maybe, like I know who wrote these. Now, ah, I'm, I'm going places and just the novelty of it amused me so much.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Because I'm like, oh, I'm starting to get to the point where I know people, who know people, and it's forming a circle, which is lovely. So, between that and, like I am mildly concerned, I'm heading towards burnout at the speed of a cliff.
Speaker 2Oh, cliffs, don't move that fast though.
Speaker 1They do if you're tumbling towards them. Actually, cliffs move very fast. The Earth is not slow.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1I think it was. I think my brother is the one who pointed this out and I worked it into that light novel I dropped on your desk where it's like the Earth moving. So if you teleport you're just not on the earth like you gotta account for that. Good luck uh.
Speaker 2Side note um, I theorize that time travel is actually possible, uh, but if you keep your same coordinates, I don't know what sort of uh, non-relativistic coordinate system there might be in the universe, but the Earth will not be where you are now a thousand years ago.
Speaker 1Right. I find that to be a bit of a trip, so I decide to try a new game that went on flash sale because, despite being an author, therefore broke, I'm like I deserve this game. So I was playing this game, triangle Strategy, which privets into our main topic for today.
Speaker 2Right, right so.
Speaker 1Triangle Strategy is Fire Emblem by Square Enix in the style of Octopath Travelers.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1And I've been playing this game and really liking it. It has a few mechanics I've never seen before and I'm like man is my favorite genre. What is it? I think they call it like.
Speaker 1SJRPG like strategy JRPG, grid based JRPG is actually my favorite genre of game, except only like three of four of them ever have been good Right, and I mean like series, not individual games, because most of them are just. People like to put the word tactics in front of a game and then be like, oh, this doesn't have to be as good as the thing we're making a tactics of. Like Persona 5 Tactics is like hey, we don't have to have this well written because people already bought the Kool-Aid. It's the prequel problem, slash sequel problem. If people already bought the Kool-Aid, you don't have to sell them Kool-Aid, do you? But I have a completely unrelated question for you that has nothing to do with anything.
Reading Habits and Strategy Games
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1How long does it take you to read a book?
Speaker 2How long does it take me to read a book? Yeah, in terms of hours, I believe that Dracula took me about six or seven hours. That was a tough read because of the archaic language. Jaws took me about five hours and I can check how long I've been reading Dexter. I'm 64% done. I don't see where it tells me how long it'll tell me when I'm done the book, how long I've been reading it. So, but I think I'm only at like two hours for that one. It's pretty easy read.
Speaker 1The reason I bring this up is that as we blitz through media content, I had an epiphany where it's like I read a lot of Canadian lit and I'm like we should start a book club, like a deep space and dragons book club, where once a month we both read the same book then talk about it, which is basically what we do.
Speaker 2We can highlight more weirder indie things, because I have a stack of books on my desk and several of them I know you would enjoy well, I mean if I dedicated myself, yeah, I mean five hours over the course of a month, depending on, like I said, if it's anything like Bram Stoker or Dracula. I guess that's what we talked about that on In February Canadian.
Speaker 1Lit. We're looking at like 60,000 word novella type things. Publishers are just like not nearly as aggressive as they used to be Like. I read Countess the other day and it's like Let me pull this up on my desk. It is do-do-do-do-do Page number. Where are you Like 250 pages?
Speaker 2Oh boy, yeah, Like in theory, that would only take me roughly three hours.
Speaker 1Yeah, because, like, because like modern, especially speculative fiction, they're like okay, we're gonna, we're not gonna make you read dune. We're not gonna do that because no one wants to publish dune, because then they would have to read and edit dune.
Speaker 1Nobody's winning in that exchange right but yeah, like, because I mean like I don't know, like not really a new with me, but with hypothetical, which I'm not going to talk about too long at length I'm trying to do more Canadian things, like read more Canadian books, buy more Canadian stuff. My vengeance is supporting local business.
Speaker 2Oh, that seems to be a lot of Canadians' vengeance for the unnamed political issues we're facing.
Speaker 1Yeah, the one where, like, the person's arm was definitely at a Nazi angle on a stage If we were to bring up a protractor, he failed the Nazi test.
Speaker 2Okay, just out of curiosity, what is the angle that causes you to fail?
Speaker 1If you look at it and you think Hitler, that angle I don't remember the exact angle, but it's like if it's above 70 and below 120 or something like it's a decent chunk of the protractor you just don't do that Like. If you go above that angle it's hail taxi and if you go below that angle that's pet a dog. If you're between petting a dog and hailing a taxi, you might be doing the wrong hail.
Speaker 2Anyways, I mean yeah, yeah, let's. Let's let our viewers in on our listeners in on what we may or may not end up doing. Who knows, maybe, maybe let's get the most viewership we've ever had.
Speaker 1I find that funny because it would have been such a pre-episode conversation. But I'm like, nah, nah, I'm just name drop, count, just check it out. Good book, not a sponsor, just a fan. But also back to the topic of SRPGs besides my tangent, I'm going to count that as part of what's new with me. You didn't put in a book review, so I took a full 15 minutes and we're good. So, anyway, which is your? You didn't put in a book review, so I took a full 15 minutes and we're good Anyway. So which is your favorite turn-based, grid-based strategy game? That's not SD Gundam Gachapon Wars, because we did an entire episode on that.
Speaker 2Dang it that is the best one. Well, I mean, I think it was Disgaea 5 that was for the DS.
Speaker 2I think they also made Disgaea 1 for the DS maybe, actually maybe, disgaea 1 would end up being my favorite. I'd have to check that out because I really, really liked Disgaea 5. Pretty sure it liked Disgaea 5. Pretty sure it was Disgaea 5 anyways, because it has a lot of the same spirit of Gachapon Wars. I mean, you don't deploy units by capturing bases, but the fact that you can pick up your allies and throw them onto ledges or try to plan how to explode the little crystals. I do love the total knowledge. There's a lot of extra nuance and mechanics that you don't really find in any other series. So Disgaea 5 is pretty high up there. It almost gets overwhelming with all the things that you can do yeah.
Speaker 1So like one thing I noticed when I was going through the sky of five, which I think I was on ps3, I don't know was that like. It's like each mission added a new mechanic.
Speaker 1They weren't small mechanics right and I don't know if I ever hit a point where it stopped, like the only thing I think I like 100%. It like the Disgaea 1 remake for the DS and it had like six endings One of my favorite bits in gaming where you kill a person and they come back as a robot-printy, which was established as what happens to bad people. I'm like that's a joke. There's so many animes and shows that don't use that joke. Dragon Ball used it once where it's like if you're interacting with spirit people and then someone dies and then they just get back up, that's just such a good joke, like technically in Bleach it would have been amazing that just Chad dies in a fight and then just gets back up.
Speaker 1It's like, oh yeah, right, he's dead now. And then just gets back up. It's like, oh yeah, right, it's dead now. Same with JJK. What if Sursur dies Shouldn't?
Speaker 2he just get back up as a curse. I think that's kind of the point, but I don't know how long it takes for them to actually become a curse after they die.
Speaker 1Because it'd be hilarious if they kill Jojo and then just ghost Jojo gets back up. But I digress Disgaea. I really enjoy that kind of humor and I also really enjoyed their dumb Senate mechanic.
Speaker 2Ah yeah, where you try to get things passed by the Senate and then if they don't agree with you then you try and beat them up. But they're super powerful, tough baddies.
Speaker 1So this Triangle Strategy game does something kind of similar but different. So it's more in the game. It's like a Fire Emblem, but it's pretty Fire Emblem in tone. But how it goes is for big plot decisions. Your party leader has decided on democracy. So the seven, like your seven, like highest ranked confidants, each get a vote on what the story branch you take. But you get to talk to each one and try and convince them to change their vote based on, like little books and things you found in the story to get new information, to try and convince them.
Speaker 1So, the first one that happens, like my character's engaged fiance is like I don't want to go back to my homeland. They suck and then, another party member is like I want to go to their homeland, it's cool. So I go to that person and be like actually you don't want to go to her homeland because there's awesome warriors in this other place. Like, yeah, let's go fight the awesome warriors in this other place. Like, yeah, let's go fight the awesome warriors.
Speaker 1But I got that awesome warrior fun fact by talking to a random bookshelf, okay, and I'm like, oh, so I don't pick the story road, I have to like wheel and deal. And I kind of love that kind of mechanic where it's like, yeah, no, I have to convince my team to do something because it like builds a lot of character, you know me, me I love when mechanics and function Weave together, like when there's a point to knowing the personality of your party members.
Speaker 1Because, that actually has Strategic value to it, although Disgaea has kind of the opposite problem when, like Main characters obviously should go on your team and make a character. Yeah, they're literally nothing. Yeah, like SD. Gundam you don't even pick who your commander is yeah, yeah, sd Gundam.
Speaker 2Well, so I mean SD Gundam against your. So I mean SD Gundam, gachapon Wars and, like I say, advanced Wars. They're very focused on the strategy element and not so much focused on the story element.
Speaker 1Like to pivot from that a bit to Advanced Wars, because Advanced Wars definitely has more of a story than SD Gundam Gachapon Wars well, it has more of a story, but that's not really the focus of the game, that's for sure. I was going to say, like the big difference between the two in that regard is picking your commander where.
Speaker 1I think SD Gundam, if we were to put out SD Gundam Gachapon Wars 2, I would definitely put in a mechanic where you can pick your commander and like their signature units would be cheaper or they get some kind of commander power to make. Like them play a little different like. Char all his red units would move an extra square or something that would be funny because it's like I do like it's weird if I have you in the room to like versus turn based strategy games are sweet, but I've had this.
Speaker 2I do like it's weird If.
Speaker 1I have you in the room. The like versus turn-based strategy games are sweet, but I have had this. What was it called Um War, something or other which is like a medieval advanced wars?
Speaker 2Wargroove.
Speaker 1Yeah, but I haven't played it against anybody yet because I don't know Like I feel like it's a hard sell. But it might just be that I'm too busy to be like hey, you're my friend, play this game with me, you don't have a choice.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, if it has online, I think I might own it.
Speaker 1I'm not sure I think I have it on Xbox Game Pass something or other.
Speaker 2So yeah, cross-platform might not be a thing.
Speaker 1Xbox is pretty chill about cross-platforming. Hmm, but I digress. So, like between the two, what do you prefer? Like the story-based one or the versus one?
Speaker 2Um, well, let's see, I think, like I really really, really enjoyed also um, I don't even know what it was actually called, but I think it was the fourth Fire Emblem that came out for the Super Nintendo wasn't actually released in English, so I had to patch it, and what not oh, that's giving me nostalgia.
Speaker 1I'm going to call that one Fire Emblem time skip.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, because like you're going through and then your main commander like dies and then there's a time skip and you play as his kid and any of the characters that you formed relationships with through the previous half, like they have kids that inherit their powers At the time. That was a pretty interesting system that I'd never played with before and I did. I really, really enjoyed the story elements, got really attached to the characters and then suddenly they're all dead and I'm playing with their descendants. It's like that was a twist I didn't see coming. And I guess a well-written story is, or a very compelling story is a great addition to a grid-based strategy game. But again, when I look at Advance Wars, it's not a compelling story, it's just these people are trying to take over these territories. Go, stop them.
Speaker 1So it's kind of funny, like a spiritual successor to that Fire Emblem was Fire Emblem Awakening on the 3DS, which I have either in second or third place in my best Fire Emblem of all time rankings. But, their twist on it was so the story was a time travel-y story and the idea was, once two people got high enough friendship to be parents, their kid would time travel back because they became part of the squad to help you through this time travel plot.
Speaker 1Time travel back because there became part of the squad to like help you through this time travel plot, so you got to see like people interact with their fully grown descendants.
Speaker 1But I find it funny that, like the fans put out a patch and they called it the rainbow patch, because what they didn't like was the idea that every character by the design of the game had to be straight to create offspring, right, so like no, no, we could just have two characters, either gender, and then they character by the design of the game had to be straight to create offspring, right?
Speaker 1so like no, no, we could just have two characters, either gender, and then they maybe they adopted, maybe they used magic, who knows, don't think about it too much. And I'm like that's an interesting point, the heteronormity of having that mechanic, and I'm like you know, I wouldn't be bothered at all if two men ended at the end of it and then there was a time skip and they had a kid. I wouldn't actually think to question that. Especially younger me would be like oh, how did this happen? This is an affront against God.
Speaker 2No, yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that. It just wouldn't even cross my mind, until someone points it out, that it's like oh, they must be gay. It's like oh, why does that matter?
Grid-Based Strategy Games and Parodies
Speaker 1Or maybe they just pulled a good omens and just two straight? No, it could be a bad example. They're actually gay, Like I'm trying to think of one where, just like, two straight guys adopt a child and raise it, because that's a trope. But I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, Sven and Train are heterosexual life partners.
Speaker 1They don't exactly adopt a child, but they do have the there's paperwork involved by the end of it. That is absolutely how that happened. All right, thanks for the example.
Speaker 2Black cat for the win.
Speaker 1Oh man. And then he just went on to draw smut for the rest of his career because that paid better. It's like the reverse of the pipeline you normally see, and that's so funny to me. It's like I wrote this awesome action series that did meh, so I started doing increasingly smutty things and that's my full-time job now, and I'm like oof supply and demand, or is this what you always wanted to do? Tough to say, but yeah, so like one of my favorite games.
Speaker 2Still, though, is Fire Emblem Three Houses.
Speaker 1Because it's a game worth playing four times, which is wild, because I don't finish that many video games, so for me to have deliberately went through a game four times is insane.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1Because of how the structure is. You meet all the characters, all like I don't know 30 students, but you only meet the ones that are in your class. Right so it's like you go through and you're like yeah, I'm raising my 10 squad members and then you do the next playthrough and they're the bad guys. You're like oh, now I feel bad for murdering poor Hubert.
Speaker 2I know that he only had resting Snape face, but actually was a good dude, right.
Speaker 1So it's like the idea that like, hey, on your first route you meet these characters and on your second route you get to choose if you spare or murder these characters. Add some interesting nuance for the replay value of it. So like I really like that one. And then a newer one came out, firemomb, engaged and it's just garbage and whoever made that should look at that. They made three houses and they made engaged and just I don't know a tone like there's some sort of like ritual. They needed you to purify their negative chi or something, because the focus group is heavy on. It was literally you got magic rings that summoned other famous Fire Emblem characters. I'm like this game feels like a Gachapon game. It doesn't have a Gachapon machine, but it has that energy and I hate it.
Speaker 2Oh man, I don't know whether or not I love or hate Gachapon, machine-style games.
Speaker 1I understand them begrudgingly and it's ironic that SD Gundam Gachapon Wars, if it was released today, would be a free game. But when you beat missions you unlock treasure chests to then spin the Gachapon machine to get your unit.
Speaker 1Like that is so easy to turn that into a freemium game? It sure would. I don't even know if you'd change anything. You would just be that you only get so many plays of each difficulty a day and you can swipe your credit card to get more. Yeah, probably, just add new units. Three new units every month, charge, do the math, and it costs you 500 to get them all. So another series that has a ton of the grid based games is we got the other sd gundam games, which are just pure strategy ones right, they're capped on the ps2, but they've all been pretty good.
Speaker 1We got super robot wars and I don't know if you've ever played a super robot wars game uh, I've seen you play a super robot wars game.
Speaker 2Um, I've seen you say play several actually, and they do look a lot like a lot of fun. Um, but as much as I do like giant robots, they're pulling in some probably popular in Japan IPs that I'm just like I don't know.
Speaker 1But they fixed this for you. So one of my top video games of all time, which maybe aged poorly, I don't know. So they made Super Robot Tizen, original generation one and two for the game boy advance okay what happened is every super robot wars. They put in original characters and original mechs to kind of be like your protagonist and round out the roster, yada, yada.
Speaker 1After 20 years of doing this, they realized they could just make their own game with the original stuff okay so they made a game that's like a serious super robot story while simultaneously being a parody of super robot stories.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1You get to pick one or two characters. You can either choose like edge maverick, edgy guy in his edgy mech, or you can pick kid who was good at video game, which turned out to be a government spy program to find robot pilots with new type powers.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And like it's like they managed to basically homage all of the series that make it up without requiring any knowledge, and it's just delightful because, yeah, it's just a complete story. It's like the most Super Robot Wars story imaginable. It's like aliens invade on their alien asteroids, so the Earth Federation and the Evil Earth Federation go to war and betray people and then occasionally, demons from the Hollow Earth come up and it's like, yeah, this is peak writing. You put it like they have the spaceship with the giant drill on it slam into a machine that's shooting mini black holes at you and I'm like they understand me.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And they have the Fire Emblem. Mechanics of your players get higher support when you send them out in squads. You can move them around to pilot whatever mech you want them to, despite what the plot tells you. There's a character of Talking Cats that flies around and is clearly inspired by Escaflowne mech, who has no sense of direction. It's just good and it's designed that both of them have the two campaigns.
Speaker 1of which protagonist do you start with? And I think the only difference is your protagonist gets an upgraded suit, depending which version you go with and the first ten missions are different. Makes sense and grade suit depending which version you go with and, like the first 10 missions are different makes sense and they do my favorite thing in those games where each mission has a bonus objective and if you beat enough of them you get the actual final stage okay but the game also like scales with it.
Speaker 1So it's like the more secret objectives you do, the harder it gets. But yeah, super robot ties an original generation gameplay, advance peak gaming somehow harder it gets. But yeah, super Robot Ties and.
Speaker 2Original Generation, Game Boy, Advance, Peak gaming Somehow Well. I mean, one of the nice things about grid-based strategy games is that they're a very specific art style. Well, I guess not very specific, because Triangle Strategy and Octopath Traveler have vastly different art styles than Advance Wars. But the number of sprites in locations and I really do like grid-based strategy games because they generally do age better than games trying to be hyper realistic- so, on that note, you know what I didn't bring up at all Final Fantasy Tactics, which people love, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, which I love more.
Speaker 2Oh.
Speaker 1Did you ever go through Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced?
Speaker 2Uh, I don't think so.
Speaker 1So it's like the most grid-based strategy of grid-based strategy games, but like the plot's funny. So you get eek aside to Final Fantasy because you opened a magic book.
Speaker 2Okay, but.
Speaker 1Sorry about that sneezing on the podcast, but you learn that, like, the main villain is this kid who was paralyzed in the real world and in the Final Fantasy world wasn't so he was trying to stop you from going home because his life was objectively better there, and I'm like that's actually profoundly dark the more you think about it.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1It was a good one, it had like so it had like the typical Final Fantasy job system, but it also had the random bullshit system. So you start a fight and this judge would show up in black armor, in his judge outfit, and declare a rule for the fight. And if you broke the rule you'd get punished. And it was like semi-random so you'd get punished. And it was like semi-random, so like you'd be like alright, time to start my mission. They'd be like, if you break the law and cast an ice spell, oh no, no, no. And I'd be like ah, damn it. So one thing the better grid-based strategy games do than the other ones is it makes me sad when, like your party members just kind of get so underleveled, they just end up on the roster, never being used, because you don't really have a reason to rotate out your team.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1Like the classic Pokemon problem.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1I don't know if I've ever seen any of these games fix it. Disgaea doesn't really have that problem because you're picking your units so you don't have like a surplus of bench warmers. Really, super Robot Wars, you end up with a surplus of bench warmers. There's not a whole lot you can do to prevent that. Fire Emblem fixed that in their original designs because people would just die, which even in like ironic as in the later Fire Emblem games, they make death optional and don't really write it into the plot as much and they usually have things like oh, we can rewind X number of turns to make it feel less like, oh, you died to one unlucky hit.
Speaker 1But I still always play with the death on because it changes how you think strategically or like you're not going to sacrifice a unit because you can't. So even though, like it's like, even though I'm playing with permadeath almost with the intention of save-scrumming, I'm still playing with the death because it changes how your brain strategizes and kind of makes you more emotionally attached or disattached to your characters, because you can be like I hate this guy because he keeps dying. Screw you Tails. When I was doing my Sonic Origins run, I did a fair amount of swearing Tails. When I was doing my Sonic Origins run I did a fair amount of swearing at Tails Like a lot of the times. He'd be useful, but sometimes he would just betray me. He would just step on a button he wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 1Or knock me off a platform by doing a thing.
Speaker 2Well, okay, so I mean going back to Gatchapon Wars and Advance Wars, the other end of the spectrum. There is the characters that you're not actually attached to because they're just generic. You build up your roster.
Speaker 1So some Fire Emblems are bad for that.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Not all Fire Emblems. It's weird. Like Fire Emblemss usually each character only really gets like their introduction cut scene and then like five support conversations right and sometimes they nail it and sometimes they don't. And I think a lot of that comes from like actually using them in battle kind of like builds emotional attachment. Like fire emblem three houses every character has like a really nuanced backstory to the point where their passive ability is tied into their backstory, like one character heals when they do nothing because they're a lazy slacker who's just trying to get a government job.
Speaker 1So their dad stays off their ass yeah, okay so it's like there's a lot you can do to make you care about characters or don't, and that just comes down to good writing.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1And I'd say like half the Fire albums I've played have had legitimately good writing.
Speaker 2That's fair. They do actually seem to be fairly well written, and I mean last week we've spoken at length about how, uh, ganchapon wars has zero writing, like it's just random battles basically but it's funny as we still get that emotional attachment with zero writing.
Speaker 1Right, my guy's a scene that I took your base over with one guy's. A c that thing will be the legend and I will be emotionally attached to it. Geyser C that thing will be the legend and I will be emotionally attached to it Because it's like me and you will have a hatred of Psycho Gundams. No one else will truly ever understand.
Speaker 2Ah, psycho Dice, Ah, psycho Dice.
Speaker 1Also, why is Night Gundam so bad when it looks so cool?
Speaker 2Well, I mean, yeah, the Gachapon Wars does, because it's so closely tied to an IP and you can just be like this is my favorite unit and I'm going to fill my roster with all of my favorite units. You do still kind of have some of that attachment, but that's more so nostalgia than actual genuine attachment.
Speaker 1And the thing is they do the other SD Gundam games which just retell the story of Gundam or do different crossovers and things. But the problem with I'm going to just declare war on Japan here casually a lot of Japanese game series is that they kind of peaked at the PS2. So it's like they release an. Sd Gundam game like every couple of years, but they don't write new stories for them.
Speaker 1They're just like, yeah, play through these Gundam scenarios. I'm like, listen, I've went through the plot of Zeta Gundam in 20-something games okay, originally. Like the first time I played with these SD Gundam games. Like I don't know all these side stories. I'm like the first time I played one of these SD Gundam games, like I don't know all these side stories. I'm like, yeah, I'm familiar with Shin Mazagata, it's not my first day. Yes, I'm aware, garmi Zaba has a purple Zaku. We're past this. And what's worse is then they'll add in the new series. And I'm like those I'll even know more about Because you've actually and researched them Because if you want to play through Ironblood Orphans.
Speaker 1I'm like nothing surprising here, because you guys aren't writing new stories for these. I've only played one Gundam game ever made that had a completely 100% unique story to it.
Speaker 2And it played more like a.
Speaker 1Paul Fancy game. It was called MS Saga, the New Dawn and it's probably the best Gundam game. That's not Gachapon Wars.
Speaker 2It did something.
Speaker 1I've always wanted we love Gachapon Wars it did something I've always wanted a JRPG to do the map was just Earth. So like you, just your overworld map was just Earth. Right and then like key locations that should have stuff did. Like when you unlock the plane you're like there'll be something hidden in Japan and you go there and find a bunker that has an original Gundam hidden in it and I'm like this makes sense to me Like the bonus dungeon was a giant military base under Antarctica.
Speaker 2That's pretty sick.
Speaker 1Right, and I think they turned the Sydney Opera Hall into a coliseum for Gundam battling.
Speaker 2That just makes sense.
Speaker 1But, like my TLTR on this one is that it's a genre that I'm sure fans are so used to me complaining on our podcast, because I like to complain about things that's my favorite genre, like even though SC Gundam games would be better if they hired writers right and the most recent Fire Emblem is a disgrace. There's just a lot of good games. The thing about I need to pick up a Disgaea because it's been a while.
Speaker 1My problem is I did several Disgaeas back to back and then they start to get a little samesies. But like you know what's wild, I don't know if you ever watched has Been Hotel or Hell of a Boss.
Speaker 2I have not.
Speaker 1But like they're super popular right now because it's like 18-plus-rate animated series about demons, with all of the swearing and adult themes and they're in hell and assassinations and gay romance. You know like things people are into and I'm watching this I'm like oh man, you guys don't realize. This is just disgaea.
Speaker 2You have no idea I mean this guy is a little bit more, uh, age appropriate for younger children. But yeah, there's a lot of that same stuff, only because they're pretending it is.
Speaker 1It's like Husband Hotel literally follows Lucifer's daughter trying to redeem sinners through a hotel program. And I'm like oh this character's literally flown from the first Disgaea game, but is the protagonist and it's like yeah, you made edgy Disgaea, good job. And it's a musical. Oh man, if they put out a new Disgaea, that was just straight up a musical, that'd be amazing.
Speaker 2All the cutscenes are musical numbers.
Speaker 1All the cutscenes are musical numbers. The music bops during turns and when you click your attack buttons, your movement, sound effects and attacks are in beat. It'd be amazing.
Speaker 2Hmm, that would be a very neat game On a different note. Your attacks are stronger if you actually hit them at the right rhythm.
Speaker 1Right, what was it Like? Paper Mario had the tapping buttons as part of the attack animations. I mean, nothing's going to beat SD Gundams if you just control your Gundams for the fights, because it's like so much effort from such a famously non-effort franchise. It's just wild.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1Like anywho, but any of that we're forgetting. Like the big ones that come to my mind are Fire Emblem, super Robot Wars, disgaea, this new triangle strategy, which, I'm gonna be honest, it's just Fire Emblem, but one of the first characters they give me is, like my advisor, gray-haired advisor, dude with glasses who beats people with a cane sword. I'm like, yeah, no, this is sick.
Speaker 2Well, and then you said that it has that unique mechanic where you have to convince your party members with story brands you want to go down.
Speaker 1So here's a couple of the cooler mechanics. It has to dive in a bit, so it has the typical terrain. Characters don't equip weapons. Weapons are just things that level up with the character.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And each character has like five or six moves. But the game cares if you back attack people and if you flank someone, like you're on both sides of them, you get a follow-up attack and every character has been a unique class and it also kind of has like the divinity terrain effects, like you can have one character throw oil and the other character light the oil on fire to burn them.
Speaker 1Oh okay, so like my team right now, because I'm just like starting it out I got sword dude who just unlocked the one he gets hit can counter attack. That's like sword attack range, sword attack. Slow down their turn order, sword attack my cler. My cleric has, like heal haste, beat with baton. I have a dude that just wields a shield that knocks people back squares.
Speaker 2I have an archer.
Speaker 1That's range increases the higher up they are. That can go for the eyes, so it's like they're giving other characters that are like feel like they'd be late game abilities right at the start, like the thief character just gets to take two actions or can take an action and then a hide action.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1So it's like this game is like clipping along and I'm like, oh wow, the fights are hard enough in it. So a mechanic they put in is you keep your experience when you lose a fight.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And on hard mode. The fights are hard enough that I've lost every fight, the first try and then won the rematch.
Speaker 2Hmm.
Speaker 1Because you like, because then you've leveled up.
Speaker 1Well, not just the level up, but I've had to think about it and I've fought better. The level ups aren't like making huge differences, but like it doesn't feel like you're wasting time. Hmm, yeah, okay. And instead of having like mp, they have like a star system where you start with four stars on your character and your actions cost different stars and you get one back a turn. So like the fire spell uses up three of them, which means only every three turns you get a fire, the big fire spell, and it's been very good so far. Like I really enjoyed the archer having better range, the better high ground I give them.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1Or literally the shield guy having a taunt to make everyone have to attack him on his turn so you can position them, so you can then shoot the fire spell at your guy and burn all the guys around him, or like they gave me an ice mage.
Speaker 1That could just make a 5x3, 1x3 row of ice, so enemies have to walk around. That takes three turns to melt. So it's like they went and sniped all the really interesting later game mechanics from this and they're like yeah, we're not even going to bother with weapons because the characters are just complex. And the whole democracy system of the more you deploy characters, the more willing they are to listen to your vote.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1And the plot starts with you being in an arranged marriage and then that's like your first two characters and I'm like, oh, it's like PG-13 Game of Thrones, where it's like being pretty serious and grounded, like the main cause of the war is over salt mine ownership rights between three kingdoms.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Because salt is important.
Speaker 2Makes sense.
Turn-Based Strategy Games Critiqued
Speaker 1And I haven't gotten super far into it, but it's like, okay, you're telling a grounded story, like your main character is like one of the like three houses of the kingdom that are like the Kingsguard basically, and like all sorts of like. Oh, you two got married because you're both expendable, so the alliance falls through. They could just write you both off as a lost cause, isn't that great? Warbreak says like well, this sucks for both of us, doesn't it? So it's been pretty good. Also, a character got Warbreak says like well, this sucks for both of us, doesn't it? So it's been pretty good. Also, a character got super drunk in, like the second chapter, and passed out on the floor. And I'm like you know, I've never seen this in a game and this amuses me greatly.
Speaker 2The only game I've ever seen someone get drunk and pass out in was Tales of. It was the one for the Super Nintendo Tales of Fantasia.
Speaker 1Okay, like this one amused me because he gave his grand designs plan, got drunk, passed out and then later just gets shot in the back with an arrow instead.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, that didn't happen in Tales of Fantasia. They were on a boat and the guy was drinking and passed out.
Speaker 1Seems legit, but yeah, like ugh. And then I'm thinking like some of the tactics games that didn't really come up are things with the word tactics, like Dice Warriors Tactics. Eh, it's exactly what you would expect on the tin. Persona, Tactics terrible. They made this Digimon Survive game, which was half visual novel, half tactics, and the tactics part was terrible and I was so mad.
Speaker 2But you liked the novel part.
Speaker 1So the novel part was good but wasn't full-price video game good. It was like $20 good, not $80 good. Because, it's one of those choice matters where you're like actually no, it made it feel like you had control over who lived and died, and that's how they advertised it. Digimon survive. Your bonds with your friends determine who gets killed throughout the story right and then after you beat it you realize no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1You actually can't change it at all. There's like three routes but only one decision point at the game actually changed the story. It was such a bummer because, like sick turn-based strategy Digimon game with a sick story was great, but like it would have been better as an anime or a book because the choices matters, didn't matter. So I made so many dialogue choices for it to do nothing. When they're like, dialogue choices changes what your Digimon evolves into Like oh, that evolves into Like oh, that sounds sick. Oh no, you like literally color coded the choices into red, green and yellow and then that just changes your main guy's evolution and that's it. I'm like, ah, you guys were so close to making something sick, I don't know.
Speaker 2He always complained about the things you love most. So he always complained about the things you love most, not this one.
Speaker 1It's like, as I said, my favorite genre paired with one of my favorite series with a cool concept and some really sick moments. Honestly, I don't want to spoil it Like some straight up sick moments and then I get through it the first ride and realize, oh, that's it. Damn, it Was a bummer. It's like I was just singing the praise of Fire Emblem Three Houses, because each route unveiled more of the plot, and this one's like you can go for all three endings. I'm like your first six out of eight chapters are identical. Why would I do that? And your combat engine sucks for some reason. Oh, also, they're doing a Bleach turn-based grid tactics game for DS. It was actually really interesting. Oh, you know I usually say prequels suck.
Speaker 2Uh-huh.
Speaker 1This one was a Bleach prequel for like Soul Society during Aizen's days when he played as like one of his squad members.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And it was actually really interesting Because all these characters in Bleach. Bleach has a really well fleshed out flashback time period. You can go around to do stuff, but it didn't have prequel problems because it's like none of the main characters are going to die, but a lot of characters are going to die and the main characters weren't your characters right because you're like oh, by the end of this prequel my protagonist here dies. But I'm kind of fine with that if it's compelling enough makes sense.
Speaker 2But also I wasn't very old when I played that game, so I might just have been dumb.
Speaker 1Compelling enough Makes sense, but also I wasn't very old when I played that game, so I might just have been dumb. I might not have been aware it was bad, because I'm like yeah, this is sick. Another very mid one is they did like a Pokemon X Nobunaga's Conquest game. Oh, really yeah.
Speaker 2Oda.
Speaker 1Nobunaga had Conquest game. Oh really, yeah, Oda Nobunaga had a shiny Rayquaza. It was a thing.
Speaker 2That sounds like a tongue twister.
Speaker 1It was interesting. Like I'm not even going to rate that one good or bad, it was just interesting.
Speaker 2Hmm.
Speaker 1I think that's most of the ones that I've played that come to mind. Wargroove looks really interesting for like having a full co-op campaign, so at some point I'll probably give that another try makes sense but do you have any closing thoughts?
Speaker 2uh, not in particular. I mean SD Gundam Genshin Impact Wars is just my favorite game in the in the genre, uh, but uh, there have been quite a few good titles that I've played, uh, most of which you've also played. So that's.
Speaker 1I don't really have much to add it's like, oh man, it's kind of funny because a turn-based game like that you wouldn't think would be a particularly good co-op experience, but like a lot of the st gundam ones and things I played like with my brother in a sense, where I've watched play and made comments and gats upon wars had that sick ability that like you could literally have a second player pickup controller and fight, because they put in that combat mechanic which I was on the fence about but really enjoyed.
Speaker 1But like it's also one of my favorite genres to just kind of watch people play in backseat game to be like, hey, are you sure you want to do that? That's probably death. And with that we move into our random question of the day, which I usually use two or three because I'm whimsical. Whimsy of the day, which I usually use two or three because I'm whimsical.
Speaker 2Whimsy of the day.
Imaginary Animal Size Exchange Chat
Speaker 1So this one's a good one. If you can make any animal the size of a horse, which one would you choose?
Speaker 2Make any animal the size of a horse.
Speaker 1So I want to ride around on a horse-sized capybara.
Speaker 2Like I want to use it as like a.
Speaker 1It'd be my Bidoof and I could take it across the lake, but realistically that wouldn't actually be helpful. I might do something wild here, but go ahead.
Speaker 2Well, I was thinking the other way around.
Speaker 1Take something big and make it small, so like a horse sized elephant oh, that's pretty optimal because, like, if I want to like actually end world hunger, we go horse sized chickens, they're terrifying yeah, that's true but I think I just solved world hunger, although we kind of have those and they're called ostriches yeah, I mean, I think that might be a play mistake to increase the chicken size.
Speaker 1And if I made Miko the size of a horse I would die. We call those panthers and they kill people Like capybaras are super harmless, so like the novelty of a giant, giant capybara would amuse me, but I don't know. Also, hot take probably really dumb. Ravens are extremely trainable and in theory you could ride on a raven the size of a horse, provided like proportionally. Their flight still worked. So I'm gonna ride around on a raven and that's how I die, because I have a fear of heights and I decide to ride on the back of a bird, but it'd be a really, really cool way to die.
Speaker 2I wonder if that would be doable, because their bones are hollow.
Speaker 1Well, we're assuming the magical giant, like any animal, we have to assume magic will account for the shift in destiny. So they can be that size and not just. I want a cat the size of a horse. Kill me my rims, get support to me and I'm in agony. I try not to monkey paw or random questions. That's for D&D wish spells.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's true, because I'm pretty sure, most animals.
Speaker 1If you make them the size of a horse, what happens is they die.
Speaker 2Well, yeah, probably. But again, I was also thinking like you know, blue whale the size of a horse would be kind of amusing. I think those are dolphins. Dolphins have the bottom, I guess I don't know much about dolphins.
Speaker 1I think I'm wrong. I think I'm just being a jackass for no reason. Oh, a seahorse the size of a horse. Could you actually even Aquaman, that shit? Oh, that'd be dope.
Speaker 2Ooh, a starfish the size of a horse, that'd be kind of terrifying. Yeah, that's Starro, that's a problem.
Speaker 1You call the Justice League. When you see starfish that big, that is problematic. Also, I kind of want to find one of those fancy toy-ty-toy rich people, animals and make it giant so you can eat more of it. But they're only valuable because they're rare and hard to get, like a giant quail would be like we're not going to eat giant quail. We quail and be like we're not going to eat giant quail. We're not going to eat giant duck. Why would you need a duck the size of a horse?
Speaker 2The fat ratio would just be ruined. The fat ratio would be ruined.
Speaker 1Also, a shrimp the size of a horse would be terrifying. I'm going to make a lobster the size of a horse and people will have problems with it.
Speaker 2People will have problems with it. People will have problems with that size of lobster.
Speaker 1And our second random question. I don't know if I've asked this one. It's pretty close to one we've had before. But if the sky could rain anything but water, what would you find to be the most entertaining option?
Speaker 2To rain anything but water. What would you find to be the most entertaining option? To rain anything but water?
Speaker 1What would? You find to be the most. I like the follow-up of what would you find to be the most entertaining option, not like good or like no, no, just you personally. What would amuse you to have it rain on people, which is kind of a good litmus test on humanity? I think, oh, that's such a weird hot take. So I'm going to say something horrifying, but I might stand by it, you know.
Speaker 1After they jacked up the price of insulin. How funny would it be if it just rained insulin, like if I could just pick a medication that I could just fall from the sky like a really useful one, like, oh yeah, it just rains penicillin. The rains of penicillin just hit people and just everyone in this region is healthier now, except that one person with an allergy who had the worst possible death.
Speaker 2I was just going to say.
Speaker 1It's like I just walk outside. I feel really good. I must have had an infection.
Speaker 2Jeremy, twitching on the ground, oh no, just death, no, I'm going to go with all the varieties of ice cream.
Speaker 1Oh, oh no, that'd be so bad the next day. Oh no, not cream, not dairy, no Dairy.
Speaker 2Oh no, not cream, not dairy. No, you better pack your umbrella.
Speaker 1Oh no, I'm not going outside. No way I'm going to let the city go to purge.
Speaker 2Yeah, but I mean like seeing people slip in ice cream the next day would be hilarious. Also, if you go out there with like a you know, a decent ice cream cone, you could like scoop it up. Well, meanwhile it's falling.
Speaker 1You don't want to scoop the stuff off of the ground, like this is so temperature relevant like thank god you're in saskatchewan when this happens, because if that happened on a hot summer day, like 20 minutes later, you've created the worst apocalypse ever. Oh, that's rough. You know it'd be a really fun one, though ever that's rough. You know, what would be a really fun one, though, orange dye Orange, dye Yep why? Because then just everyone would be Trump-colored across the entire country. I think I solved racism I think I solved racism, that's the thing.
Speaker 1I want it to be something useful, but if it's a food product, it'll spoil and just be terrible.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, useful is not what it means to be amusing, unless you're amused by utilitarianism. My fantasy is for people to be happy, unless you're amused by utilitarianism.
Speaker 1My fantasy is for people to be happy, healthy and content people okay, I would my like escapism fantasy is going on the bus and everyone's actually having a good day. Like you want to entertain me, put me in a room where people actually want to be there.
Speaker 2Uh See. Originally I was going Uh see, see um. Originally I was going to say like bouncy balls.
Speaker 1I thought you were going to say flubber. I don't know why I thought you were going to say flubber specifically, but, like my brain went that direction.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, bouncy balls are pretty, pretty close. Um, flubber actually probably would eat better, because I it uh doesn't have the same mass and density as a bouncy ball. Because how far up are these bouncy balls raining from?
Speaker 1I think you can decide. So I'm going to say one last option, because it would be the apocalypse. I'm ending humanity this way, but it's the best way for humanity to go I'm going to have it rain. Nicholas Cages. You just hear some bees, some bees and then just a full-grown Nicholas Cage hits someone and then they just all start swarming, yelling movie catchphrases as they plummet down from the heavens.
Speaker 2And none of the religions called it right. Have you ever seen the Unbearable weight of massive talent?
Speaker 1yep oh man, nicolas Cage as portrayed in that movie raining down on people is there anything we can have in rain that would like fix climate change? Like can I have it rain that would like fix climate change? Like can I have it rain?
Speaker 2like just pure ozone or something, what, oh wow.
Speaker 1I have it rain, liquid nitrogen.
Speaker 2To just cool off the planet.
Speaker 1Well, yeah, the most effective way possible by killing everybody. I don't think mankind's surviving five minutes of straight up liquid nitrogen rain Like that's problematic. Goodbye, every farm.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean that's true.
Speaker 1Like I don't think our buildings are doing too well. Like liquid, nitrogen's not the kind of thing that repeatedly hits something.
Speaker 2That's true, but you might not have that much actually hit the ground.
Speaker 1I don't know. That's a fun physics experiment.
Speaker 2Terrible wish, fun physics experiment, oh speaking of that has nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 1So I was watching a Critical Role charity special last week.
Speaker 1They were doing like a fundraiser for the wildfires, not to get too topical and one of the characters gets a wish spell. It's like, what do you wish for? And then he goes I'm going to summon a Tarrasque and Matt Mercer, with all the joy in the world and glean his voice, goes, grab my Tarrasque mini as one of the like to support team, runs off to this room and I'm like he's been waiting his entire life for this moment and he's so happy. Nothing new of anything, that's just a thing that made me happy this week. Anyway, I'm gonna have a rain, tarrasque another apocalyptic ending to the world.
Speaker 1That awkward moment where you're just walking down the stroll and you feel a drop of rain on you and then a hundred foot tall, scaly, magic-resistant dinosaur falls on you.
Speaker 2Oh, the Tarrasque, my favorite magic commanders Kinda yeah, it's cool, it's not very good.
Speaker 1My favorite Magic Commander Kinda, yeah it's cool. It's not very good, but it's cool. I mean, at least your favorite one's not like PewDiePie or Optimus Prime or some other bullshit.
Speaker 2That's true, there's a lot of garbage. I'm gonna run Rick from the Walking Dead.
Speaker 1I think the Walking Dead one bugs me the most. Cause every Walking Dead character should be a 1-1 creature. Don't you tell me that Negan from the Walking Dead can fight a Shivanen dragon. I call bullshit. He can't even fight a regular human with mold in their mouth, and I mean bears are 2-2's.
Speaker 2Yeah, and fight a regular human with mold in their mouth. And I mean bears are two, twos like.
Speaker 1Yeah, that was so. I love a good crossover and I hate a bad crossover, I know like this is a weird tangent to end this Strategy Game Rant episode on. But like I love a synergistic crossover where it feels like those characters could meet and this crossover could happen, I hate when they just don't mesh at all, like, for example, dexter's Lab and Powerpuff Girls. Great crossover, ten out of ten Keng and. Ashura Baki the Grappler. Great crossover. Ninja Turtles and Batman works better than it should Great crossover.
Speaker 2That was a pretty good one.
Speaker 1Well, it helps that Batman already had animal people. My random question for you that I invented right now is what two things would give a sick crossover off the top of your head.
Speaker 2What two things would give a sick crossover off the top of my head? Hmm, I think Bleach and the Daily Life of the Immortal King would be pretty peak.
Speaker 1I don't know if that one would work.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 1Wouldn't it, wouldn't it? I'm going to think about that, because there is a lot of overlap. I think you'd have to do a redesign. I think my brain went power scaling, which is the wrong direction. I want a daily life with the Immortal King MMO. That's what I want. That power system is whack. You're just going to fly around on swords and just decide to be Pokemon trainers one week Ugh.
Speaker 2Peak fiction yeah.
Saitama vs. Bleach
Speaker 1You know what I'm thinking more and more about this crossover and I like it works. But I also really enjoy the part where he just like slaps Aizen around the world, like I think the bit would be so funny because Bleach has such serious villains and seeing them just fight a Saitama is so great.
Speaker 2It's like the main thing I was thinking about is the whole spiritual sword thing.
Speaker 1It winds up perfectly. He just has a Zanpakuto. Yeah, he just has a.
Speaker 2Zanpakuto. Yeah, he just has a Zanpakuto. I mean, he's never had to use his Bankai, but he has one Almost certainly we have no idea what it is, but he has one Like here's my kind of hot take about the Daily Keg.
Speaker 1Like I know it's a comedy series, but like conceptually, but like conceptually I think it's cooler than Bleach in a lot of ways, where it's like, oh yeah, we're the sword police and I'm sword Regan from Mob Psycho flying around on my sword, being the special police fighting ninjas, and I'm like you know, this is actually sick. But the lesson of that show is when you hear someone's own theme music playing run. But the lesson of that show is when you hear someone's own theme music playing run. But thank y'all for tuning in to Deep Space Dragons Once you finish that show. We gotta do that episode because, like it is so high up on my favorite list today, shouldn't it be? Bye, bye, go buy a local book a local book which is ironic because they can't buy mine.
Speaker 1But I'm fine with that. We're at war.
