Deep Space and Dragons
Follow the Nerd duo of Richard and Karl as we explore what grabs our attention each week on Deep Space and Dragons. Submit your random question of the week or dragon question to win your free E-copy of the Waltz of Blades Deluxe. Like what your ears see? Support us by clicking the little heart on the top right <3
Deep Space and Dragons
Episode (100-4) Exploring TV Longevity, Mario Party Mayhem, and the Great Cereal Soup Debate
Click Here to send in your random question to have a chance to win!
What if two people named (K)Carl were on a podcast together? Join us as we explore this comedic potential and tackle the thorny subject of "Venom 2," which might just have missed its calling as a rom-com. Our conversation meanders through the ups and downs of TV series longevity with a spotlight on "Dexter," embracing both the source material's charm and the challenges series face when they start to wander off script. With nods to classics like "Prison Break" and "Community," we ponder the perfect series length and the eternal struggle prequels face in keeping audiences hooked.
Meanwhile, we shift gears to the realm of writing and gaming distractions, celebrating the minimalist beauty of screenwriting and chuckling over grammar quirks that trip us up, like rogue tildes. Our productivity gets a boost with a day filled with workshops and Sonic Origins gaming, yet we can't escape the ever-present specter of burnout. Letting our inner gamers loose, we wrestle with our love-hate dynamic with Mario Party, dissecting its evolution and Nintendo Switch offerings with a critical eye.
Our playful debates take us from the digital board game universe to the tantalizing topic of whether cereal qualifies as soup. We muse on Mario Party's crazy mix of strategy and luck, tip our hats to other games like "Dokapon Kingdom," and wrap things up with sandwich cutting techniques that could make anyone feel like a culinary artist. Sprinkle in some nostalgia for the cinematic flair of "Kingsman," and you've got all the ingredients for an episode that promises laughter, insights, and a few hearty debates about life's little oddities.
Follow all things Richard and Karl, and check out "The Minuet of Sorcery"
https://linktr.ee/rajkevis
Good afternoon, evening and everything in between. I am Richard, one of your fantastic hosts of Richard and Carl present Deep Space and Dragons.
Speaker 2:And I am Carl, because we do this in introductory order and not alphabetically.
Speaker 1:It's true, although it would be really funny if we had two Carls and you never got to go first. True, although it would be really funny if we had two Carls and you never got to go first, because, like you do in your heart, you are winning, but the disservice is real. So, I guess I'll open up with the typical question what's new with you? Slash surprise movie review.
Speaker 2:Surprise movie review. Well, if you want a surprise movie review, surprise movie review. Well, if you want a surprise movie review, venom 2 was meh.
Speaker 1:They didn't lean hard enough into it being a rom-com.
Speaker 2:And it just felt a little bit rushed because they kept it at a tight 90 minutes.
Speaker 1:I mean it's kind of funny that that's now a tight Eh it's a long story short. Anywho, it's kind of funny that that's now a Titan. It's a long story short. Anywho, here's our 30 second review on Venom. Aight done.
Speaker 2:Alright, so what else is new in the Carlverse? Well, okay, so back in 2004. Oh Lord, that's long ago. There was a book published. It was called Darkly Dreaming Dexter and in 2006, it got adapted into the hit television show Dexter, about a serial killer who works as a blood spatter analyst and blood spatter analyst in order to use police resources to find criminals that have slipped through the cracks and killed them as his victims.
Speaker 1:A more violent version of TV's hit TV show Lucifer.
Speaker 2:And you know apparently the main Dexter series. The show has eight seasons.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I've heard six of them are good. Six of them are good, and I'd like the any particular seasons that are noted as particularly bad or so there's some deep irony about me as a person and this might go into my what's new as me section, might not, but serial killer show make me queasy Me. Never watch a person and this might go into my what's New with Me section, might not, but Serial killer show make me queasy me never watch.
Speaker 2:Fair enough.
Speaker 1:And I'm literally in a class on adjunct horror right now, reading a book about somebody who uses their own blood to write novels and I'm like, yeah, but it's cool. Conceptual Character pulls out their spine and beats them with it. No problem, Ooh, paper cut no.
Speaker 2:Well, pulls out their spine and beats them with it, no problem. Ooh, paper cut, no Well, I mean, the premise of the entire first season is that there's another serial killer that drains their victim of blood completely, and so the blood spatter analyst is intrigued, but forensically useless.
Speaker 1:Eh, I love it. It's like. Which one do you think's the serial killer? Well, not the creepy guy who lives alone and never hangs out with us, who studies blood.
Speaker 2:Oh no, no See, dexter is very good at blending in and he found a girlfriend who has some past trauma with abusive boyfriends that doesn't want to be that intimate.
Speaker 1:so then he doesn't have to get intimate, but he still has a girlfriend to put on the show anyway, I assume you're going somewhere with this instead of just spending the next hour talking about tv's dexter, because I would have prepared it some way well, okay.
Speaker 2:So I mean the first thing. I just it's kind of like a general uh feeling that I have towards long-running shows. I feel like it's maybe around three seasons where I start to lose interest, because either it becomes repetitive, where it's the same thing happening over and over again and there's not really anything new being added to the story thing happening over and over again and there's not really anything new being added to the story, or it becomes contrived, where it's like prison break, for example, how many prisons can they break into and break out of?
Speaker 1:The TV show community says the ideal length is six seasons in a movie. I think that's excessive. I'm with you that most of the best things I've ever watched come to like a cool 52 episodes.
Speaker 2:Mm.
Speaker 1:So like season length matters, like four seasons, if they're all 12 episodes, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2:But four seasons, seems to be like your TV show strong.
Speaker 1:I don't actually remember how many seasons Breaking Bad was.
Speaker 2:Mm, I think it might be four, but I would have to double check. In any event, the first season is pretty much a straight out of five.
Speaker 1:That feels right.
Speaker 2:Although Breaking Bad is probably going to cut a season, the first season of Dexter is a fairly close adaptation of the first book, and then there are several other books which diverges wildly from there. And firstly, there's a whole bunch of spin-off material from the TV series, and so we've been watching this original Sin Dexter, which follows him as a 20-year-old who's just basically learning how to kill people and not get caught, and initially I thought that it would be a tough prequel series to have a bad rep because there's no stakes.
Speaker 1:They have a bad rep because they're bad. Show me a good prequel. It's hard to do because they're bad, unless you go a million years in the past or don't use any of your cast. If you want a prequel something you don't use any of your cast, like you want to prequel something you don't use naruto.
Speaker 2:Well, see, uh, I kind of came into the the prequel series with that kind of thought in mind that it's like, hmm, is this actually going to be any good? Because like, how can there be any stakes? See, if there's any hint of him maybe being caught, I know he can't be caught. If there's any hint of him maybe being caught, I know he can't be caught. If there's any hint of him or his sister being in mortal danger, I know that they can't actually die or get mutilated in any way, because they don't fall in love until season 5 exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like you know. You know a lot about the future, but but then some people still get elected anyway.
Speaker 1:And then the nuclear apocalypse clock goes a point forward well see.
Speaker 2:The prequel did something I absolutely did not expect, and spoiler alert if anybody's watching it, because the original scene is airing weekly right now. But the chief of police seems to be working for the cartel and kidnapped his own son to make sure that no one would think that he was the one who was capturing the kids of other police officials. Yeah, and it was like you know that that's actually a genuinely compelling and interesting plot line that I don't know how it's going to go. That's actually a genuinely compelling and interesting plotline that I don't know how it's going to go because it's not at all tied to the Dexter series, and I have high hopes.
Speaker 1:I will be happy if it's good, but see the thing about prequels and this gets thrown in my face a lot about prequels. Although there's been like the thing about prequels and this gets thrown in my face, a lot about prequels. Although there's been a couple decent Star Trek prequels is most prequels. Would be better if they were their own show with their own characters, instead of being a prequel, because this gains nothing by being part of the Dexter cinematic universe. If this was like Todd and it just followed a different serial killer named Todd, you lose nothing well, I mean.
Speaker 2:So another part of the draw to it is so. Dexter's mother was also killed by the cartel when he was like three years old, and then a police officer adopted him and realized he was a sociopath and trained him to focus his serial killer tendencies onto people who deserve it Best parenting Also the plot of Naruto.
Speaker 2:Right, and the original series doesn't really elaborate a whole lot on the father's relationship with the mother. The father's name is Harry and the original show doesn't really elaborate on Harry's relationship with Dexter's mother. And so there's a lot going on because you're following Dexter as he's learning how to kill. You're following a flashback where Harry is remembering Dexter's mother and how she was an informant for them trying to get the top members of the cartel, and there's tension in this. Like I know, she's going to get murdered, but when?
Speaker 1:I will say Chekhov's murder is not the worst strategy there.
Speaker 2:Right. And then, like I said, there's the main storyline where Dexter's learning how to kill and then the chief of police is secretly child kidnapper, slash, murderer, and it's like it's complex and nuanced enough and the stakes aren't really directly tied to Dexter and his family. So I get what you're saying about how it could just be in someone's show and it doesn't gain a whole lot from being part of the Dexter universe. But there is some intrigue that they managed to pull from it being part of the Dexter universe. But there is some intrigue that they managed to pull from it being part of the Dexter universe. But I don't know. When I watched the original Dexter show though, I got to season 6 and I just gave up because it was streaming weekly at that point and it wasn't on Netflix yet and actually I got kind of tired of the show because, again, like I say, after a certain point they get kind of contrived.
Speaker 1:So it's funny like the contrived notion of how do we make our story cycle happen, to make our plot happen. What was it? It was like at what point does it start being the character's fault? Like I don't want to use One Piece as an example, but like in One Piece, every time, without fail, they end up in an island fighting the government. It's like yeah, I don't feel bad for you Because it's like oh, like I'm trying to think of a good example, because this came up recently where it's like you come up with increasingly contrived things to make the plot happen. I think it was delicious in the dungeon, where it's like okay, you have to make sure it gimmicks that all these monsters are edible, but at what point does it become absurd?
Speaker 2:Right, but now that my fiancé has gotten into watching the original Sin show I'm not she's almost done watching season 6 of the original show, and then we're actually going to watch season 7 and 8 together, because I haven't seen them. But I have to now watch the show and I'm also going to try and read the books to see just how different they are, because a screenplay requires a different set of technical skills than writing a novel.
Speaker 1:What? No way, I would never know that. It's not like I've taken screenplay writing classes or anything.
Speaker 2:It's not like I literally workshop one day as play writing classes or anything. I'm looking at you, jk Rowling man, the second Fantastic Beasts movie and the third one too. But the second Fantastic Beasts movie. Jk Rowling wrote the screenplay, but I don't think she actually studied how to write a screenplay, because when you introduce a bunch of characters, you can stop your novel to go and explore their backstories a bit and learn more about these characters in ways that the current characters don't even necessarily need to know. But it's still interesting and the flow of the story isn't necessarily disrupted. But there's this scene where they're planning a heist in the movie the second Fantastic Beasts movie and it just stops for this flashback for every single party member. And it's just so disruptive to the flow of the movie because I don't know how you convey that information and how much of that information was even relevant when you have such a short, so limited screen time. And it's made me a little bit sad because I really enjoyed the first Fantastic Beasts movie but the other two it's like so Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Beasts 2 and and three I have a deep hatred of, because I stopped being about fantastic beasts and the beast wrangler, like right became period peace, wannabe drama, fanfic-y, just. Oh, it's like, why do you want to be a political thriller? I want to watch a guy write a kelpie. What are you doing? It's like if you did a prequel trilogy for Star Wars and had to talk about trade unions instead of pew, pew, zoop, zoops. Sometimes you want to give the people what they want, and they want fantastic beasts and where to find them.
Speaker 2:In any event, what's new with me is that I'm currently wading through the Dexter universe and all of its related media.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was about to say from your screenplay clip. I'm like did you actually look at the screenplay? Because I would have given you kudos Because it's easier to look at the screenplay, but it's a lot easier to do if you actually look at how screenplays are written.
Speaker 2:No, no, I know I don't have the technical. I'm not sure I have the technical skills to be an author in general, but I know I don't have the technical skills to be a screenplay writer, because that's no way. Screenplay is the easiest one screenplays are easier than the novels oh, absolutely so, screenplays or let's even go stage plays.
Speaker 1:Let's go stage plays. You're actually encouraged to give as little details as possible that aren't like specific dialogue, so your actors can act in your setting can setting and your prop can prop. So because you have a crew you don't actually choreograph a fight screen in your screenplay.
Speaker 1:That's for the choreographers to do so you would just be like it's over Carl, I have the high ground, and then everyone else has to figure out how to do that. It's awesome. You might be like enter left camera, pan up. It's over attic and I have high ground and it's like, yeah, no, they want you to put in. Less is more in these situations so the other people could do their jobs yeah, if I went for a living.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh yeah, on page. Each page is one minute into the screenplay. They're formatted deliberately to do that, so so I could be like oh yeah eight minute post-credits stinger, dramatic pun goes here. I'm like, yeah, formulaic, like, oh man, if I was writing a weekly sitcom like a Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I'm like, yeah, this is awesome. All I have to do is be like X person says Y. Maybe a note about how, maybe not. Maybe. I'll just trust Terry Crews. It's great.
Speaker 2:Well, anyways, what's new with you there, Richard?
Speaker 1:So a lot of my schooling is doing workshops and for the plottiest of twists to all of my fellow students who clearly listen to my podcast every week, I had a really strong workshop group so I ended up at school an extra half hour because everyone was being productive and thoughtful and intelligent and I'm like yeah, this is my second last workshop of the year and I got competent people who care Amazing. I feel like the next workshop is not going to be that.
Speaker 2:The final workshop of the year will be something terrible.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny because, like, my day was literally going to the office, do copy editing for three hours, do homework for two hours, go to class, workshop for four hours. Like, what did you do today? Oh, I edited and I workshopped and I wrote and I, unironically, had an awesome day. I had a full 20 minute conversation about whether or not you capitalize a question after a semicolon. What a day. Huh, and it's after a semicolon, no, but after a traditional colon if it forms a complete sentence. Yes, yes, you do weird things.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of rules you need to like actually write because I'm working on the style guide for redacted right and there's a lot of rules you don't realize are rules until two people do the same thing differently and you realize, crap, we need a rule right so like, for example, one person had a number range that was one hyphen three. Another person had one that was one m dash three. I didn't think I needed a rule to tell people you use hyphens for number ranges, but now we do.
Speaker 1:Or it's like oh, you put periods between each letter of your acronym. Why? Oh, sometimes you didn't Guess that's a rule now, so there's a lot of that.
Speaker 1:I like when the universe gives me a thing to hyper-focus on and send rage to, that has no feelings, because it's like ah yeah, I'm going to get mad at the practice cards. It's their fault, not the people who wrote them. They're long gone, doesn't matter. The card itself is my enemy. How dare it? How dare it have such a weak use of white space cur? How dare it start three out of four bullet points with I?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's rough.
Speaker 1:Right, like you gotta fix it. And then you're like do I add that to the rule? It's like no, there's no way, that'll come up often. Oh, I guess it does. I should probably put that in the first practice document. Shouldn't have to tell someone this, but you know.
Speaker 2:There's lots of things that you think you shouldn't have to tell someone, but then it turns out they do.
Speaker 1:So you know the symbol above the tab key, the like squiggly line thing, and I'm not actually sure what punctuation that is.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Someone was using one of those and I wasn't sure how to Google what it is. Okay, let's see, I don't actually know what that piece of punctuation is or means, but apparently it's important enough to make it onto the keyboard.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's called a tilde.
Speaker 1:I think I was calling them Tildos today.
Speaker 2:Tildos.
Speaker 1:I regret nothing.
Speaker 2:Okay, where's my phone at? It's gone off. I need to make sure. Oh, to tell me that my phone is connected to my computer. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Good job.
Speaker 2:A symbol similar to a Tildi. No, that's, I don't know. Let's see An accent placed over a Spanish letter or Portuguese. No, I don't really know why it's on our keyboard.
Speaker 1:So why was it on one of the cards I was editing? I'll never know. Shouldn't have been so my day super exciting? Shouldn't have been so my day super exciting, looking at different novel contests to enter, won a scholarship, did a bunch of school stuff.
Speaker 1:All in all, a good day and that does sound like a good day but what's new hasn't really changed from last week, where I'm like I'm doing all these events that I burned out. How about this week I'm doing all these events that I burned out? How about this week I'm doing all these things that are less burned out? Oh, I also played a crap ton of Sonic Origins.
Speaker 2:Ah, yeah, because you saw the Sonic movie, the Sonic 3, recently.
Speaker 1:So Sonic Origins is the best way you can do a remaster. So, not only did they add widescreen to all of the games without like stretching, it by like actually like redrawing the frame, so it's wider. They also retroactively added four playable all four playable characters to Sonic 1, cd 2 and 3 so.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, sonic 1, that didn't have Super Sonic and you can only play a Sonic. I can now play a Sonic and Tails and collect the seven emeralds to go Super Sonic. This is sweet. It made the older game better. Yeah, I'm gonna play through Sonic CD as Amy Rose and save her damn self. It's great, it's good stuff.
Speaker 2:That is pretty funny.
Speaker 1:And they just did little intro outro cutscenes For a collection. I'm so used to Nintendo cheapness of there being like $80 if you want Super Mario All-Stars again. That actually happened and it was just the port of the SNES game for the Switch.
Speaker 1:And then it's like how would you like not only these four Sonic games with a bunch of new features and a new story mode, and we made it that you can just retry the bonus stages infinitely. And we got rid of lives and instead you get coins to unlock things. Instead of lives. They give you coins to buy things from the gallery Because they're like why would we give you lives? You can just restart, we don't care.
Speaker 1:And also they just threw in every game key or Sonic game for fun and I'm like, well, that was a good use of $12. And I'm just like, yeah, this is great. So that's what I've done is procrastinated being a writer by playing Sonic while I wasn't being a writer. Time to move into today's topic, which I was originally going to pivot off of Dexter, Because you know what else probably has a really high murder rate.
Speaker 2:What?
Speaker 1:Digital board games, particularly Mario Party. Why did you want? To talk about Mario Party today particularly Mario Party.
Speaker 2:Why did you want to talk about Mario Party today? Well, I mean the main thing. I kind of wanted to complain a bit because what? Yeah, I know Super Mario Party. I love Super Mario Party.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought I was thinking 8. You were thinking Mario Party? Oh, I thought I was thinking eight.
Speaker 2:The one you were thinking. Mario Party eight, yeah, no, like Mario Party one is absolutely brutal, like it's so unfriendly as compared to even number two. Number three is kind of where they hit their stride with their formula of how characters interact on the map and how the map interacts with characters, and I feel like it's a tried and true formula that they just stuck with up to Mario Party 9, I think is the last one before Super Mario Party, I think is the last one before Super Mario Party. And Super Mario Party felt like it was supposed to be a reinvigoration of the franchise where they were going to try new and interesting things to shake up the world. They tried to shove in every mode too.
Speaker 1:They tried to shove in every game mode they could.
Speaker 2:Well see, I mean I, I enjoy the the river rafting mode, where you're on a raft trying to get to the end and you have to hit and get, you have to collect time clocks it was the friendship.
Speaker 2:I, I really did enjoy that mode because then then you have to do hit balloons with mini games, uh, and then do well on the mini games to get more time so you can actually make it to the end. I really it was quite clearly a gimmick. That wasn't going to make it into the next version, oh yeah, but I liked it. And then you know they had their obligatory rhythm games. Where you like they're motion games but you like dance to the music or whatever Dance to the music. Then obviously they have the minigame mode where you can just free play minigames. And then obviously they also had the classic mode, which is just a four player brawl where you're on the map and each person is trying to race to the star and get the most coins and play mini games to collect coins and what not.
Speaker 2:But the game mode that I was hoping would not be a gimmick was their new partners yeah, the co-op squares, because that felt very much so mario party, but a new, fresh take on it, right? Um, and I was actually a little bit sad because there were only four maps on super mario party. Uh, partly, partly because they put some development into this free-form squares mode where each player had a different custom dice block and you could pick up allies to be able to use their dice blocks and they add to your role and you share your role with your partner. There's so much I enjoyed about the team mode that they added to Super Mario Party and I was really hoping that that was going to be the future of Mario Party.
Speaker 1:So to pivot off that pretty smoothly, because Super Mario Party is a game that comes up a few times when I have gatherings at my friend's house and things like that. It's a good game for that, even though it has the mix of motion controls and classic minigames.
Speaker 1:And the thing is, though, super Mario Party kind of did its job too well when they announced a game. After that, I'm like, why would I bother? I already have a Mario Party. But, more importantly, it's like still debatable whether or not it's actually like, whether or not it's actually like better. You know, like sometimes like is Mario Party 3, because it's janky and terrible, actually the better game, because you're trying to play it semi tipsy with your friends to begin with well.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I say, if I wish they had invested more resources into the free movement mode, because that was fresh and interesting. But with the release of Super Mario Party Jamboree, which basically Super Mario Party 2, they cut the teams mode, and I appreciate that they cut the team's mode. Ah, moment of silence. I appreciate that it freed up development for the game boards themselves, because there's more game boards and I think they're more well-designed, with unique and interesting mechanics, and I really, really like the set of game boards that they have for Super Mario Party Jamboree. But one of the claims to fame for Super Mario Party Jamboree, but one of the claims to fame for Super Mario Party Jamboree, I guess I'll just call it Jamboree going forward.
Speaker 1:You can do the whole thing or.
Speaker 2:S-M-E-J. I'm just going to go with Jamboree. One of the benefits of Jamboree is that they have over 130 minigames I think was the number they quoted which probably means they have 131.
Speaker 1:Which probably means they have 70 and then 70 reskills.
Speaker 2:For whatever reason, some of the motion minigames it's like they really like this one particular motion where you're twisting and turning the controller to try and pedal a tricycle, and they try to use that as often as they can, it seems, and I just absolutely just can't figure out that motion. I don't know what they're trying to actually get me to do.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make a hot take here. The Switch put out all of its best games within the first two years and hasn't put out a single good game in the following seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Because it's like Breath of the Wild amazing. Breath of the Wild 2, electric Boogaloo Not actually better Mario. Kart peak Stop there. Smash Bros peak Stop there. They just kind of capped out. Other than Pokemon, legends, arceus, they just kind of were done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess that's fair. I'm still excited for the Switch 2, but I'll see.
Speaker 1:I'm not right now. I might be when they announce the right software.
Speaker 2:Back to Jamboree. I don't know why this became part of the development ethos.
Speaker 1:Oh, because everyone at Nintendo who's over the age of 70 needs to retire over the age of 70 needs to retire.
Speaker 2:But there's also a lot of minigames where it's last man standing or first person to get to the finish and for some reason, when the last man is still standing, they let that player go as far as they want to or can go. So the other players have been knocked out and the last player is like you know what I feel like being a jerk, and I'm just going to do my best to actually make it to the end and make you guys watch me, even though the game knows that I've already won, because if you just kill yourself in the minigame don't unload yourself. But anyway, if you just end the minigame early, you still get full credit for being the victor of the minigame. And then they kind of expanded on the idea of the allies that add to your dice roll and have special abilities. I don't even know.
Speaker 1:If I like that mechanic, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of 50-50 on how it worked in Super Mario Party because they were clearly powerful, but there's so much variance that Super Mario Party because they were clearly powerful, but there's so much variance that nothing that you do in the game actually guarantees that you'll win unless you manage to get four more stars than the opposing team. But you need a pretty significant gap in stars to actually be able to guarantee that you're going to win, because there's just so much variance. And that's actually kind of part of a part of what I like about the game, uh, is that it feels like their strategy and your, your uh choices matter, but then at the end of the day, uh, even someone who didn't really do very good throughout the game can still win.
Speaker 1:Which is why my friend Cassie, who I'm just going to dox here on this podcast, is a relatively competitive gamer, contrary to her entire ambiance as a human being. So when we were playing Flamecraft a few weekends ago and we got to the end where it was either me or her or one other player that would win the hatred's real.
Speaker 1:But the thing is people like that take a lot of psychic damage in Mario Party Because they can lose to a player who hasn't been thinking at all, and they don't mind losing to a player who's been thinking I'm much the same way, I'm throwing Cassian under the bus to describe my own foibles who's been thinking I'm much the same way, I'm throwing Cassian under the bus to describe my own foibles? I am fine losing at Mario Party to someone who's actively been trying to beat me at Mario Party. I don't like losing at Mario Party to someone who hasn't been trying to beat me at Mario Party.
Speaker 2:Well, in any event. Coming back to the ally system from Super Mario Party, I didn't mind it. I thought that they were very powerful, but I found that they actually didn't affect the overall balance of the game. Ah, and I feel like it's the same way in Jamboree that they don't really affect the overall balance of the game in Jamboree, that they don't really affect the overall balance of the game, but instead of being the first person who gets there and gets the ally, you have to play an ally minigame and each character has their own unique minigame.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure, like most of them either don't have a timer and someone literally has to complete the challenge, or have a timer that's's like four or five minutes. So it's like you come up to Waluigi and now everyone has to play pinball for five minutes. And well, I might be exaggerating, maybe it's only three minutes, but you know one person's at a thousand points and the next person's at 200 points. It's pretty clear who's won and you're not racing to a specific score. There's no, you just have to play through this whole game. It's a very weird design choice to have made so many mini games and they just keep going.
Speaker 1:So what's really funny about this? And I was thinking about this a lot during your vengeance tirade against Mario Party. So last week they announced a remastering of the earlier Dokopan Kingdom games. Right, and my first thought was, yeah, another Dokopan Kingdom game. And then I, like sad memed, look out the window where I'm like if only I had someone who would lock themselves in a room with me for three days to play a video game, board game. But that's kind of the joke is me and you have played some stupidly long games before.
Speaker 1:But if the game feels complex enough, you get invested in it, like if you came out to visit and we did a started up before the king too, it is possible, we would pull an all-nighter playing for the king too that is possible, perhaps. Even likely or dokapon kingdom or whatever. But it's funny for mario party because you have so little control that in dokapon kingdom when you get wrecked you always know that you can then like, try and come back through strategy or spite.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Where Mario Party just kind of makes you sit there and take it by the sounds of it and your problem's that I can't be scheming my vengeance because Waluigi's playing pinball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. That basically seems to be the mentality of these minigames, where it's just like it feels like they just rush to put as many minigames in there as they can and then they forgot to make them mini. Yeah, like ten turns in Jamboree takes an hour and a half. 10 turns in the group mode of Super Mario Party takes 60 minutes. There's like an extra half hour that they shoved into the game. That is basically just more minigame.
Speaker 1:What's interesting is, like I'm thinking about Mario Party competitors that have come along over the years, like we've done the Raving Rabbits, the novelty wore off pretty quick We've done. I did the Rugrats Mario Party for 64, like bajillion years ago. Okay, there was like the minigame Bomberman game where we're like they have a four-player minigame mode I'm like, but the best mode is just bomber man. Why are we playing mario party?
Speaker 1:because for a while everything on the wii wanted to use wii motion controls and forcing right and it's like mario party, I don't even know, is actually better than like xbox risk or xbox monopoly, like literally just digitizing the classic games, so you don't even know is actually better than Xbox Risk or Xbox Monopoly, like literally just digitizing the classic games so you don't have to set them up, or almost comparable to the games designed to be minigame things Like. What was it? I was playing one the other day with a friend called Party Animals which was just like a budget indie Mario Party.
Speaker 2:It was probably straight up better. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because the joke is that Mario Party, the environment you're playing it in the game itself doesn't really matter. Like Nintendo Land is just a worse Mario Party. But you had good Nintendo Land things, or like Wii Sports Resort, was just a Mario Party, at least the way we played it. Because, we would just rotate through random minigames. Or go classic WarioWare.
Speaker 2:Well see, but part of what makes Mario Party and other similar games stand out is the board game aspect of it, and you can't really just successfully shove that into another game, famous example being the.
Speaker 1:Smash Bros, the Smash.
Speaker 2:Bros Thank you the. Smash Bros one, it just didn't really function. They're like yeah, it's a board game, but no, Smash Bros is not a board game. It's not meant to be a board game. You can't just add that in and expect it to actually be good.
Speaker 1:I mean it could have been, though, because they half-assed it. The board was just the carts that go in a circle. They didn't commit. If you made a full-length Dokopan, but instead of card battling it was a one minute smash bros match, you have to commit to making just a full board game that does that. It's like, yeah, st gundam gachapon wars, for example, and this is a hot take didn't even need the strategy game part.
Speaker 1:They're like yeah, you got versus, you got arena, you got infinite dungeon. Also, we have a full on strategy game here and we decided to make it four player and I'm like what You're just like? Let's just Put in everything this game engine can possibly do.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that development strategy the SD Gundam Gachapon Wars. It has so much content and they did as much as they possibly could. Strategy the SD Gundam Gachapon Wars is it has so much content and they did as much as they possibly could. With that Can I point you know what they didn't do?
Speaker 1:Which I would do if I was doing a re-release of it. Add a board game mode with SD Gundam-themed mini -games each round. Be like Don's a big Sam, Jump onto White Base.
Speaker 2:Mm. Yeah, there are some things they could have done.
Speaker 1:It's kind of funny. On the alternate end, though, we have Jackbox games, which are, like, so far removed from being an actual game. Jackbox game is to Mario Party, as Cards Against Humanity Is to Call of Cthulhu, like they're just Ice breaking party games at that point, like Jackbox is. Literally, we took drinking games and made them digital games instead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they're great for their own reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jackbox is Is a great series of fun and interesting games that do lend well to a party ambiance, for sure well, it's just funny because, like the kind of gamer I am, like I said, if you were to be like, hey, let's play a single game of Call of Cthulhu, but it's digital, so the pieces set themselves up, I'd be right there for that.
Speaker 2:But like the Mario Party problem, like I've never been super into.
Speaker 1:Mario Party, this digital, so the pieces set themselves up. I'd be right there for that. But like the Mario Party problem, like I've never been super into Mario Party because I'm not lucky and I'm not quite skilled enough to get by on skill alone, Well, see another one of my critiques about Jamboree.
Speaker 2:For sure, 1, 2, and 3 Mario Party, winning minigames didn't guarantee that you would win the game, but it had a huge impact on how likely you were to win, as it should, particularly in Jamboree. I will get that minigame award every time. It's like you're the minigame champion, that's right, but we didn't give out a star for it, so you didn't get any bonus for that and, uh, you'd still lose even you won pretty much every minigame. That's rough, yeah, yeah, and it's kind of annoying and I just. The Super Mario Party kind of feels similar, where winning the big games doesn't actually guarantee that you're going to win the game, but it feels closer to the older school spirit where mini games are actually almost as important as the game board.
Speaker 1:And then Warrior Wares just on crack, just on crack cocaine. Sadly, my Sonic collection didn't come with the Sonic Mario Party they released on the Dreamcast. I assume it's bad, but it exists and it's like. What's it called? I'll get back to you, but they, totally, for the Dreamcast, released Sonic, something or other which was just unabashedly Sonic Shuffle. That was it.
Speaker 2:Which is.
Speaker 1:Mario Party, but with Sonic characters traveling around the board in turns and collecting gems while taking part in numerous four-player minigames. The fact it's never been reprinted on anything that wasn't the Sega Dreamcast tells me everything I need to know.
Speaker 2:So we've been describing these games as board games, but Mario Party in particular, there's no way that you could physically replicate that non-digitally, and so it's board game themed. But is it really actually a board game?
Speaker 1:So I'm going to go and give the semantics answer and then the real answer.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go and give the semantics answer.
Speaker 1:And then the real answer, Semantics. Is it played on a board and is it a game? Yes, it's a board game, a digital board game, but a board game nonetheless. However, there's this like guns and bullets game. I played one time where everyone had a foam gun and you had to. Between rounds of this board game, a timer went and you had to point to who you thought was guilty and go pew-pew and then shoot a foam dart at them.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And that's a board game, but debatably, once you physically get up and start throwing hacky-sacks at each other, that's about as much of a board game as Mario Party, right? Sure, you're using a video game for the mini-game component, but realistically you could sub that with everyone playing Rock Paper Scissors against each other and the winner gets five coins, and the board game would still function. So I do think the mini-game collection style game calling it a board game, video game is just correct and counting those.
Speaker 1:If it was a board game night, someone's like why don't we do a round of Mario Party? I don't think they're wrong. Like, you're no longer sitting at a table, you're sitting on a couch, scaring at a TV screen, so you lose a bit of the vibe, but you wouldn't really lose much of it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So like yeah if it was, bring a game to board game night and you rolled up with Sonic Shuffle, I'd be like I'll allow it. Well, but so you mentioned For the King in passing, specifically For the King 2. It was free on.
Speaker 1:Xbox Game Pass this month.
Speaker 2:It's. I would say that also falls into a similar category where it's a board game, but that one kind of interests me because there are so many fewer hidden choices and things that are just impossible to replicate in real life, because you see the number of checks that you need to make, based on what stat, what your probability of that stat is, and it's basically all dice rolls. So you could theoretically recreate that entire game as a physical board game, the only problem being the physical space that we require for such a large hexagon map.
Speaker 1:oh, you absolutely could and, like having successfully played call of cthulhu, has really opened my eyes to how much effort people are willing to put in to set up and play a game, because Call of Cthulhu, the co-op game. I don't know if you've ever set up a game of Call of Cthulhu.
Speaker 2:I have not.
Speaker 1:So it involves a board twice the size of a risk board.
Speaker 1:Item cards, monster cards, character cards. Players select a character. Characters get health tokens. Characters get MP tokens. Characters get item cards. Characters get spell cards. There's tokens on the board to track monsters, tokens on the board to track the calendar, event cards, city cards, exploration cards. A monster deck that flips itself over and transforms the monster and like about a probably 20 baggies of materials go in this game. So it's like the setup for this game is like a 20 minute setup to get all the parts where they need to be.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And that tells me that we could just set up a full Dokopan Kingdom game and people will do it if you find the right people. Because, like, what blows my mind for Call of Cthulhu is, it's a cooperative game where you have to beat the monster or just lose. And cooperative games are so weird to me because I'm like the dev difficulty it must take to make a game where the game plays against you on a good difficulty curve to feel challenging but not unfair. It's so much harder than to make a game balanced against other players.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because it's like you gotta make a game balanced against four human beings that feel like they're outsmarting a machine without having a machine because you just get punch cards. So I think that's like kind of a recurring theme, is like me and you tend to lean towards like the co-op video game, board games.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or co-op, competitive. Dokkan Kingdom has actually totally just cut through, but it appears like it's cooperative until it's not. It is the longest of long con games ever made. But yeah, you hit a certain point where it's like to make your board game elaborate enough. Just be digital, like For the King. I believe we could just make For the King, but it would be less convenient right.
Speaker 2:So I mean obviously the. The digitized versions of board games are just straight-up board games and it is very convenient.
Speaker 1:I love straight-up digital risk so much more because I have a button that just speed battles the two territories hmm, I kind of want to change risk a bit. I had this idea where to make risk more efficient. You got the number of faces on your dice equal to the troops that were there, and they scaled up on dice size and you both rolled to see how many of the other sides you killed. So like, if you had 20 guys, you rolled a d20, and if I had 6, I rolled a d6.
Speaker 1:So if you roll 20 on your 20 and I roll 6 on my 6. You lose 6 and I lose everybody, and you obliterated them into base and that makes every fight like one dice roll, or two at most, I don't know if it works out mathematically the same, but that's how I would do it Just screw Risk.
Speaker 2:We've already talked about how Risk is one of the worst classic board games out there yet it's so close to being awesome.
Speaker 1:I think that's what gets me. It's like the fancy risk. It's like as soon as you add some control over this variance, the game gets good again but classic risk is just not good and I've come around on monopoly, oh well.
Speaker 1:So first off, if you remove free parking, so you're not just getting money out of the not good, and I've come around on Monopoly. Oh Well. So first off, if you remove free parking, so you're not just getting money added to the system and you play with a turn limit, especially if you have a dramatic countdown clock going on. Right it's a reasonably length game because you've got rid of the exploit that made it infinite.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's a bartering game. Like the variance is 90. Like the variance is 90% like. The variance is probably a quarter of the game. And then it's how well can you barter?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I've come around on it a bit, not too much Like. There's just better games like Flamecraft is just better Monopoly in every meaningful way. For one thing, you get a dragon owning a bakery. The dragon's name is Pan and it bakes bread.
Speaker 2:Oh, how clever.
Speaker 1:Yes, hey. If you think Monopoly's better than a game where you can have your lavender dragon open a tea shop, you're an idiot.
Speaker 2:Lavender the scent of evil.
Speaker 1:Probably Sounds accurate, but like to loop this back around to any sort of semblance of focus. So it sounds like you recommend Super Mario Party and don't recommend Super Mario Party Jamboree, proving my earlier theory that Nintendo has not gotten better in the seven years between those games.
Speaker 2:Has it been that long since Super Mario Party? I don't know, probably.
Speaker 1:It's been long enough to be like, if you have a Mario Party and you built the game engine, put in the characters, put in the boards, put in the ice roller and then you put out another Mario Party, it should just be better in every way and you shouldn't have to cut anything. It should have the entirety of the last Mario Party in it.
Speaker 2:Uh, super Mario Party came out in 2018. Mario Party Jamboree came out last year, so there's about five years in between the two.
Speaker 1:Imagine that was your homework. Someone gave you five years to go from Super Mario Party to Super Mario Party Jamboree and you did that, accomplished that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's Well, like I say A, I haven't unlocked all the content for Jamboree, but B.
Speaker 1:Unless it starts literally just making you Bailey Spiked Dark Cherry Hot Chocolates.
Speaker 2:Bailey Spiked, dark Cherry, hot Chocolates, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just saying, if the game doesn't start just making you cocktails, it doesn't have very good secret features to justify it.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, like I said, the amount of time they spent developing that team mode for Super Mario Party clearly took away from the amount of time they spent developing their game boards. Yeah, and so I spent developing their game boards, yeah, and so I believe that the game boards they have for Jamboree are probably the best game boards in any Mario Party to date. The game boards themselves are absolutely phenomenal. I love them.
Speaker 1:That is a fun twist.
Speaker 2:It just sounds like the mini-games, on the other hand, Well, like I say, they added 50% more time to your game. That appears to just be mini-games and I don't really appreciate that extra half hour of just mini-games.
Speaker 1:So I was looking up similar party games, right Mm-hmm, and ever go up like a clicking rabbit hole in the background during one of our episodes every now and then so I was looking up like other mario party type games.
Speaker 1:Right, you know what game has the highest score for a mario, blatant mario party type game? Totally spies, totally party for the wii has like a 5.5 and a 4.5 respectively and I'm like I clicked on this as a bit. If this is actually good, that is hilarious. Video game based on the French-Canadian anime-influenced television series Totally Spies for the PS2 and the Wii. It's like, wait, if that's actually a good game, that is amazing because it should not be.
Speaker 2:It sounds like we have a Deep Space and Dragons Plays episode coming up.
Speaker 1:I mean kinda yeah, because that sounds hilarious. I mean I do like the idea of pivoting some of our gaming streams to being us playing just random crap, because I'm always on team. Try this awful game.
Speaker 2:But yeah, jamboree seems to have put a lot more focus on minigames, but the minigames have a lot less impact on the overall game itself, and so it's kind of this paradox of more diversity, more diverse games.
Speaker 1:So didn't you get your dice block changes based on your character mechanic.
Speaker 2:Oh no, they cut that because that was basically just for the team mode.
Speaker 1:But my rant still stays that part of the problem with Nintendo games and Nintendo the company and the Switch too. Is that they peaked? I haven't seen them. They've just kind of stopped innovating around the Switch era. The title that I can't get over is like Breath of the Wild 2 still only had five dungeons. Well, breath of the Wild did this. Why would we try and be better? I'm like to be better.
Speaker 2:The thing that bugs me about Switch era games. I mean, I don't know, maybe I just didn't pay as much attention during the Wii era, but whenever they do something that seems innovative and interesting, they're too scared to commit and they just try something else new. Yeah, and I don't know. It just leads to very inconsistent games because none of their ideas are fully baked.
Speaker 1:And with that we pivot into our random question of the week. I got two of them this week. I don't know if I've asked this one, but it's such a Carl question I know we've had this conversation. Is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2:Is cereal a soup?
Speaker 1:Is cereal a soup. Soup is cereal a soup.
Speaker 2:It's cereal a soup. Well, I mean, you'd be able to make a stronger argument for uh porridge being a soup uh, because it's hot.
Speaker 1:But then we go into that gazpacho debate that you can have a cold soup yeah, I don't think cold soup is really soup.
Speaker 2:I don't I.
Speaker 1:The ocean is just soup, if you think about it, but Water, salt, broth, seafood.
Speaker 2:So here's the semantics Fine soup.
Speaker 1:So if porridge is hot cereal, it says so on the box, right, Right.
Speaker 2:So yes, Cereal is in the grain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so cereal, the grain, is absolutely a soup. When you just cook it in milk, you could absolutely make a soup out of milk. Cream of blank Now, cream of Cheerios, on the other hand, is a bit more questionable. Like, I think this is one of those savory versus sweets in the nomenclature situations.
Speaker 2:I think like a dessert soup.
Speaker 1:Although some cultures are like, try this dessert red bean soup, I'm like it's not delicious to me, I'm sorry, so I'm going to go with. Cereal is a soup if you fight hard enough for it. But you're really just doing yourself a disservice. It's like, yes, you could get on the stage and debate Cereal is a soup. Put those examples of cold soups, dairy soups, grain soups, sugary soups Boom, it's a soup. It'll be like cool if you put it in the soup aisle, no one's going to find it idiot.
Speaker 2:So Webster Merriam-Webster defines soup as a liquid food, especially with meat, fish or vegetable stock as a base and often containing pieces of solid food.
Speaker 1:So I mean Right, like you can argue it, but it's not going to help anyone sort? It.
Speaker 2:By that definition, the milk is a soup.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:Because it has a base well.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, the definition doesn't even exclusively say it has to have a stock base. It just or that it has to everything solid in it. It just says that it's liquid food, especially with meat, fish or vegetable stock as a base and often containing solid pieces of food.
Speaker 1:You know what's crazy, though? I'm thinking of these cream soups, but most of them would still have a stock component, like I think stock would have been the secret to preventing this nonsense. If, like, no, Exactly To be a soup, it has to have a stock and if it's not from the Champagne region, it's just sparkling Cheerios has to. It has to be from the soup region of France or it's just sparkling Cheerios. That was the joke. I botched that joke so hard and still got the laugh.
Speaker 2:So yay, but I think we're in consensus that it is a soup and we hate it. I mean by this Merriam-Webster's definition. Yes, it is a soup, I'm just making the Richard, appeal to semantics.
Speaker 1:Attention listeners. Picture me turning to face the camera directly. Perfect Listen. Just because something is technically true doesn't make it relevantly true If you have to argue for an object to be in a category but you went into a store and put that object in that category and no one could find it there, you're ethically wrong.
Speaker 1:So if you say, like Sailor Moon is a mecha anime, no one's going to find Sailor Moon in the mecha anime category. If you say, um, actually Superman is an alien, so it should be in the sci-fi movie, technically, sure, but you should just make a superhero category. That's like a third of all movies now and they're like, yeah, wolverine and Deadpool is a romantic comedy. I'd be like you're not wrong, but they're going to look in that superhero section.
Speaker 2:So do us all a favor.
Speaker 1:And just because you can um actually something, put it on the shelf where people can find it. Don't um actually put your pizza pockets in with the pop tarts. Don't um actually put your hot dogs in with the taco meat. Okay, guys, we can do better as a society. Don't be like coffee is a three bean smoothie, so I'm gonna put cans of coffee with the lentils. Don't be like coffee is a three bean smoothie, so I'm going to put cans of coffee with the lentils. Ethically yes, you can put coffee with the beans.
Speaker 2:But just put it in the breakfast aisle. But what's? Question number two? Does cutting a sandwich diagonally make it taste better. Scientifically, yes, Agreed Done.
Speaker 1:It's so funny though, agreed Done. It's so funny, though, because it's like. So I was about to give a speech about surface area where, when you have the diagonal sandwich, you've got the nice point to dip in your ironically tomato soup, which is a soup or your soup, cheerios, if you want to be nasty with it and like it makes a good dipping ratio.
Speaker 1:Front and front is the cheese for the grilled cheese. They look more aesthetically pleasing on the plate. But my question to you is why? Why would you cut your sandwich diagonally, other than the fact it empirically improves the flavor particles?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm kind of a savage. I just I don't cut my sandwich at all, I just dip the whole sandwich in the soup we're in a situation where you will be divorced if you don't cut the sandwich uh, well see, I might actually uh. I watched a food theory episode actually about the superior way to cut your sandwich.
Speaker 1:I've also been listening to a lot of cinema wings in the background which somehow food theory episode actually about the superior way to cut your sandwich I did pause for a completely unrelated tangent. I've also been listening to a lot of cinema wings in the background which somehow didn't make it to what's New with Richard, where they just point out things they enjoyed in movies. That's been really good for my mental health Because I watched their Wolverine and Deadpool cinema wings not sponsored, just a fan and they're like here's things I thought were awesome about it. I'm like, oh man, I should watch this before every movie and watch this person just get unreasonably hyped about everything in the movie. That's great.
Speaker 1:Oh, look at Tails he caught Sonic like this movie poster. That's a win. Dang it, I'm like that is a win. Anyway, back to your soup theory.
Speaker 2:Well, no, the film theory or food theory did an episode about how to cut sandwiches and the basic gist of it is that, like you say, if you cut it diagonally you increase the surface area versus the amount of crust and it just actually genuinely improves the flavor. But the ideal way to actually cut a sandwich is to cut it in the Y shape, so you get three pieces because that maximizes your surface area. In the Y shape. So you get three pieces because that maximizes your surface area. And then, if you want to maximize your surface area even more, instead of cutting vertically, you cut on a diagonal, so you cut it into Y. The cuts are diagonal, like instead of being perfectly perpendicular to your cutting board, and you'll maximize the surface area but still have a structurally sound piece of sandwich that you can eat. Uh, so if I were forced to cut a sandwich, I would try to do it.
Speaker 1:Uh, the food theory way to make it as um, to maximize the impact of cutting it versus not I see I'm gonna put in a third bonus question because we got some good questions in this week, but I appreciate the why cutting, so here's a fun one. If fish could scream, would fishing still be popular? So you pull the fish out of the water and it flops around and just screams at the top of its lungs till you beat it to death.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, I mean, let's play the situation in reverse. When a human goes into the water and they scream, it's not actually super audible. No, this fish, when we pull it out of the water, it's not actually super audible.
Speaker 1:No, this fish when we pull it out of the water. It's a mandrake situation. The fish gets out of the water and then we just hear it scream.
Speaker 2:I mean I don't think fishing would. It still might be popular. It's still one of the best food sources.
Speaker 1:It would be more savage. We would kill those fish so much more aggressively. I think it would drastically increase the amount of electro savage. We would kill those fish so much more aggressively. I think it would drastically increase the amount of electro-taser fishing we do, or underwater murdering of the fish we do.
Speaker 2:Or you just harpoon it from above and then pull it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure that the streaming would be that unsettling, because fish have a hard time breathing in air, alright, and with that screaming would be that unsettling because fish have a hard time breathing in air.
Speaker 1:All right, and with that, like we have some good questions, We'll save some of them, but I believe that it would make fishing recreationally less popular, more popular among sociopaths, and the fishing industry would become ridiculously savage, Like we think caged chicken is bad. The things we would do if fish could like scream for their rights.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean catch and release would definitely become less popular.
Speaker 1:But like we need fish, it's a food source, a good one. With all those delicious batteries and mercury, our robot overlords will be pleased alright well thank you everybody for tuning in something, something book something, something love each other, something, something global warming well, I mean you forgot about the something, something self care hydrate.
Speaker 2:Mean you forgot about this something, something self-care hydrate, whatnot? You know, exercise, see the sun don't test a fish scream. That seems mean I feel like it's been scientifically proven that they don't scream. Oh, I'm not sure if anybody has done those experiments with any sort of scientific rigor.
Speaker 1:Plus there's some really deep underwater fish.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:But I do enjoy that. We're just like just cutting a sandwich to angrily make it taste better, like, yes, duh, idiot, wait. The only thing that's nearly as good is when you take too much effort to cut it into like little cubes and do like the stacked fancy sandwiches where, like no crust, we cut each sandwiches to four perfect cubes, then stack them like a psychopath?
Speaker 2:yeah, but at that point you almost need a toothpick to hold your sandwich together but then you eat it off the toothpick like a member of the Kingsman.
Speaker 1:yeah, what does it have been when cinema win? Once I watch, was everything Awesome with the Kingsmen. I'm like you're right. Show, this is an awesome movie that just has insane choreography for no reason.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love Kingsman Secret Service. I don't know if I saw the other Kingsman movie, but Fair enough, maybe next week. Well, maybe