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Deep Space and Dragons
Episode 78: What We Do in The Shadows; Unpacking the Genius of Mockumentaries
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What if your father's sendoff could be as fun and memorable as he was? This episode kicks off with Richard celebrating his latest published story in the Globe and Mail, "Bowling Booze and Chicken Wings: Dad Sendoff was as fun as he was." Amidst the excitement, he also shares insights into balancing his life filled with writing, schoolwork, and gaming. Karl, on the other hand, gives a heartfelt recount of adopting a six-year-old calico cat, aiming to keep his girlfriend company during his irregular work hours. Together, we explore the joys and responsibilities of pet ownership, and the importance of maintaining a clean and healthy environment for our furry friends.
Ever wondered why we can't get enough of shows like The Office and Parks and Recreation? We shift gears to dissect the mockumentary format in comedy, analyzing the archetypes of delusional and emotionally unintelligent main characters. From Michael Scott's implausible antics to the unique camera crew acknowledgment in What We Do in the Shadows, we critique and compare the nuances that make each show stand out. We also touch on the character dynamics in Parks and Recreation post-season one and draw parallels with the chaotic charm of Arrested Development.
Finally, we put a spotlight on the character development in What We Do in the Shadows, particularly the intricate relationship between Nandor and Guillermo. From Guillermo's vampire killer phase to Nadia's nightclub adventures, we discuss how these story arcs shape their characters and speculate on future plot twists. Memorable episodes and potential callbacks, like the yoga cult and Guillermo's possible transformation into a vampire, add layers to our conversation. With reflections on each character's unique contributions, this episode is a treasure trove for fans and comedy enthusiasts alike.
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Good, unspecified time period. My name is Richard, like the plant chart.
Speaker 2:I don't know where you're going with that, but this is Deep Space and Dragons presented by Carl and Richard, because we're alphabetical this week, just like last week, but you know still, I was kind of hoping, when I'm like Richard, like the chart, you'd be like Carl, like the special K or something.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you were gonna do, but I set you up for a beautiful improv moment and you squandered it.
Speaker 2:I squandered it. I don't know. Maybe I squandered with the alphabeticalness.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe not squandered. It's more like you picked up on it semi-professionally and I'm like, oh, this is as expected. It's kind of like to spoil the newest chapter of JJK in this random episode not about JJK being like ooh, plot twist, I used my copy ability to copy the brain switch ability to switch brains with the dead body that was brought back by the nurse to then have him punch through my infinity with his domain extension. I'm like you are doing all these things. That is correct. It doesn't make him interesting the fact that you're doing them.
Speaker 2:Ouch, I wish I was interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, you are more interesting than the new chapter of JJK, but I digress what's new in the Carlverse?
Speaker 2:Um well, uh, my, uh. My girlfriend. She was out having lunch with her mom and her mom's like, okay, we've got to go to Pet Value to get some pet supplies. And while we were there, my girlfriend sees this little kitty cat that's up for adoption.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And long story short, we adopted this kitty cat. She's a six-year-old calico, which apparently is not quite senior. According to the bags of cat food, Senior is seven plus.
Speaker 1:Okay to you, Mr Miko.
Speaker 2:Old man Miko.
Speaker 1:Old man Miko, yelling at kids to stay off his lawn. But as I choke on nothing, Did you learn you had a cat allergy In this exchange?
Speaker 2:No, no, I mean it's kind of uninteresting. We got the cat Mostly because, like I, have a weird work schedule and so a lot of evenings my girlfriend spends home alone and so for, like, anxiety and mental health, it's like having a cute, affectionate pet is very, very helpful for self-care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, cats are awesome, very helpful for self-care. Yeah, also cats are awesome, like.
Speaker 2:admittedly, given any opportunity where I can advise someone pro cat or anti-cat, unless that someone is just like a bad person, I'm gonna be pro cat well, I mean, I, I do have lots of worries about, like most of the people that I know uh, they don't change the the litter regularly enough, or or like sweep and mop, or like it's just. I don't know very many responsible adults and I don't want to be a hypocrite and, and you know, point out that people aren't doing these things and then not do them myself, but myself. But without my girlfriend, I don't think I would be a responsible cat owner.
Speaker 1:I see when Cats are. Great, that's just my entire stance. But fair enough it is, it's good. It's good mental health to be like. Okay, would I be good at this thing? Should I take this other animal on and take care of it when I'm not able? No, that is a correct way to handle that Hypothetical hats on, then off to you, sir.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, like I said, with my girlfriend's help, I think we will be able to maintain a clean and healthy environment for the cat, which will also mean the environment is clean and healthy for us too. So win a win-win.
Speaker 1:Fair. Fair and balanced.
Speaker 2:So what's new with you there?
Speaker 1:Well, I can finally mention that my story is in the first person section of the Globe and Mail, so if any of our listeners want to read my writing, that is in the Globe and Mail. The story goes by Bowling Booze and Chicken Wings. Dad Sendoff was as fun as he was.
Speaker 1:They tweaked the title slightly but I consented to that my original title was yeah, they're like this would work better for a headline and I'm like huh, that's like 8% less sassy than me Because I absolutely used a synonym for fun. That could have been said more condescendingly, but I digress, it's out there. People can give it a read, makes me happy. And between that, schoolwork, working on my novel, playing far too much Octopath Traveler 2 when I had a day off, that's pretty much my life. I am not as mysterious as I wish I was.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, sometimes it's good to not be mysterious.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm simultaneously the most busy I've ever been, but like it's all desk busy.
Speaker 1:So it's like watching a writer it turns out because we don't live in the era of cheap booze and shotguns is really not that interesting. Like there is no me at the jazz bar, as a dark-hearted dame leads me into a spiral of no good Can't happen in this economy. I actually cannot fathom when people are like oh, I just went to the coffee shop to write. I'm like don't you need three monitors? Where did you have your Gundam facts open? Like how can you write without three screens? Where's your soft magic system going? Nowhere, it's all in their head. Like you don't have a single spreadsheet open for pacing your story. Okay, good luck. Like it's funny because they like to talk in my program where you have, like, your planners and your plotters and I'm neither and both, because I can just vomit a story for countless words on a paper and make it up, but then I'm making my life harder. So instead I like have all these spreadsheets open that I then proceed to ignore and then use during the editing phase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So it's like my notes would only make sense to me, or like Hannibal Lecter on meth.
Speaker 2:Wow, and I'm fine with that. Doesn't that mean that you could safely open all your notes at a coffee shop?
Speaker 1:Yes and no, there isn't the processing power in my laptop. And not only that, but like I like to put on specific soundtracks while I'm writing certain action scenes and it's like a lot of scenes will be like I will pick a piece of lyric free music from, like a game or mostly a game remix or something along those lines to fit the mood of the scene. Like I'm like alright, this calls for a lo-fi remix of the Mega man Zero 3 snow soundtrack. For me to write the scene and just not having access to my full range of equipment is really hamstringing myself. But I did write a chapter in my book in class while toning out class one time, so maybe there's some flexibility here.
Speaker 1:But also the ADHD if there's other human beings around me, much like a corgi, I'm going to be distracted. Fair enough. Like there's a reason I have to lock Miko out while I'm writing because I get so focused that when he politely puts his paw on my leg I scream and jump like 10 feet because I'll. So my passive perception's like an eight already. It gets cut in half when I'm focusing, which means if you roll a four on a twenty-sided dice to sneak up on me, you will succeed while I'm writing.
Speaker 2:Wow, I am only catching snippets here and there. Oh no, the rolling with people ended with the rolling of D20. I don't really know what happened there.
Speaker 1:Oh, I gave a monologue about my passive perception that because the recording's on my end, it picked up and because it's not on your end, you didn't have to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:All right, but let's get into tonight's topic, vampires. So I'm going to start with the obvious question Do you want to be vampires with me?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, yeah, I mean it could be fun.
Speaker 1:It wasn't a no, but I think I got a. I have to think about it.
Speaker 2:Cutting in the and out audio aside, I don't know if I could just go around murdering people, At least for the first decade. That'd be pretty tough.
Speaker 1:So my first thought, my classic vampire thought, is you work at a blood bank and you just swipe packets of blood, especially what we do in the Shadows Vampires, where you can just go up and straight up hypnotize people for blood packets.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's true, they definitely can just hypnotize people willy-nilly.
Speaker 1:And also as dark as this sounds. We live in such a nihilistic dystopia I could probably just put out a Craigslist ad for who wants to die, note sent up here and I will just kill you. That's the entire exchange and I'd probably get a person a week. Like people who just sign up to die to a vampire would be surprisingly frequent.
Speaker 2:That is probably true.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to give a mini tangent here before we deep dive into what we do in the shadows.
Speaker 2:Because this mini tangent? I?
Speaker 1:was thinking about on the bus ride home today, while the air was thick like chowder. So, the new chapter of Chainsaw man. The last two chapters had a lot of controversy on the internet.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Things about like full-on discourse about whether or not it's sexual consent to have the demon inside your body.
Speaker 1:hook up with the person you've hooked up with before People being like I used to support you, but you've horrified me with this disgusting display and I was thinking about it chapters which was two young adults being physically awkward in what's probably one of the more realistic depictions of this I've seen in manga, because it was gross and unflattering, much like adult interactions are. So in my lit class no one would have even batted an eye right From that particular chapter. In a lit class or a stage play, an awkward accidental handjob disclaimer our show will talk about an accidental handjob in a work of fiction would not beg an eye to the literary community, but the readers of Show and Jumps lost their mind.
Speaker 1:What we do in the shadows in any given 10-minute stretch breaks anything questionable that Chainsaw man has done in its entire runtime.
Speaker 2:But the audience is trained differently.
Speaker 1:Because I feel like that's happened at least 30 times, like that exact moment somewhere in what we Do in the Shadows.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know about that exact moment, but there are definitely some very risque, worse than that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The entire character of Laszlo puts Denji to shame.
Speaker 2:Well, Denji is all about consent. Laszlo is not yeah, no, laszlo's busy being an icon.
Speaker 1:So before we deep dive too, too far, how far did you get in the show and tell me Carl's first impressions? Carl's first impressions. This is now a segment.
Speaker 2:Oh, well, see my first impressions, which I mean I watched all five seasons. Apparently, according to the screen rant, there is going to be another season. Maybe it's currently airing, maybe it's currently being produced, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It'll be the final season that I was aware of no spoilers for what we do in the shadows, so pause this episode. Watch. Six seasons of TV come back. It's British seasons. It's not too bad.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean you only have to watch five, because the sixth season is not out for streaming, yet Nope, much to my chagrin, Anyways so a little side tangent On our show, the mockumentary format. On our show, the mockumentary format, the most famous example that I can think of. The famous, three most famous examples I can think of, besides what we do in the shadows, are the Office, yep, parks and Recs, yep.
Speaker 1:And Trailer Park Boys. I wouldn't have had Trailer Park Boys as my third one, but it is, and Arrested Development isn't a mockumentary but it's very close.
Speaker 2:But so the all four of these shows have something in common and that is a delusional, emotionally unintelligent, socially unaware character. Most often the main character, yes, and for the Office was the worst. The character was so delusional, but so confident, yet incompetent. The first episode was funny. The second episode, I felt bad for them because they were just so bad at life. The third episode I became angry that the character was never going to get better Because for the sake of the show, for the sake of the joke, they just can't improve.
Speaker 1:You know, the funniest part is I actually like Steve Carell in Space Force.
Speaker 2:But then by the fourth episode of the Office I just decided the show wasn't for me. I couldn't get into it because I just the character was. So I just don't see anything ending well for a character that delusional in any sort of position of power, anything ending well for a character that delusional in any sort of position of power. Like I see them becoming either a victim or the perpetrator of domestic abuse or just ending up jobless or homeless. I really don't see any actual funny punchline out of a character like that and it just breaks my suspension of disbelief that they continue to be employed To be employed.
Speaker 1:So I call it yeah so I've given this rant a few times. I think I gave it on our villain episode actually, where, when you make a character so cartoonishly evil that it doesn't make sense that they have minions or henchmen or function as a member of society like the League of Villains and my hero, academia always broke me for that one where it's like, yeah, we'll back the crazy person who murders their sidekicks, who's a 12-year-old who plays gameplay, I'm like no, no one would stay in that group past the first 10 minutes. The moment he looked you dead in the eyes and went like it's like a game and I'm going to destroy All Might, I'd be like, nah, I'm out, there's no plan here, it's just chaos, that you just keep getting increasingly lucky somehow.
Speaker 2:But so Steve Carell's character I already forgot his name, michael Scott. Yeah, ok, he broke my suspension of disbelief, like the mockumentary style is supposed to be like you're catching real people unscripted and like this is actually their lives, and I just it broke my suspension to disbelief that he could actually be a real person. And then the character archetype just kind of made me upset.
Speaker 1:So what's really funny? To like loop around to Arrested Development a bit. It's close to being a mockumentary. It doesn't have the fake camera crew and mockumentaries are funny because I like them better when the camera crew is explicitly acknowledged. So the Office.
Speaker 1:One of the things that always bugged me about it is no one acknowledged there was a camera crew there, but they filmed it like a camera crew was there. So it's like they did the cutaways like it was a documentary but none of the characters were aware they were on a documentary that was there every day of their lives, right and parks and rec. I feel like they just dropped the mockumentary after season one, like they gave up on that part. But what we do in the shadows was actually consistent about it, to the point where camera crew can get injured and die and have names. And then characters are like why is there a camera crew? And I love that. I love that they leaned into the mockumentary. To the point where some of these other ones are like, yeah, no, I understand a few episodes, like, oh, yeah, it's a documentary, so we're ignoring the cameras. But there's some scenes that's like there's no way your camera crew would have been there for that you broke your framing device bro.
Speaker 2:Um, so Parks and Rec uh, I didn't actually watch any more than season one. I was able to get further into Parks and Rec than I did into the office.
Speaker 1:The show gets so much better season two and I'm not quite sure why. It's like there's a big energy change. They might've, like I said, it feels like they dropped or made less pronounced the mockumentary format and it deeply helped them. Maybe I could just be delusional. There might not be a Carl.
Speaker 2:The main character of that series, the female lead she's a little bit more grounded. She's a little bit more grounded than Steve Carell's character and the setting is a lot more dynamic and interesting. But by the end of the first season again maybe it's because of that mockumentary style I just I couldn't. Her character broke my suspension of disbelief and I was just like I'm just not interested enough to bother, trying to see whether or not it gets better, because it just didn't get me.
Speaker 1:On the plus side. You're not sexist in this development, because the straight white male character also broke you.
Speaker 2:Broke me faster than the female character, for sure. Well, like I said, Parks and Rec is definitely a step up from the Office in terms of writing and humor.
Speaker 1:Oh man, like out of all the controversial takes we've had on here that one might get us in danger.
Speaker 2:Well, so many people like the Office. For sure I was just like I say I couldn't get into it. I thought it was awful.
Speaker 1:I couldn't get into it either. To be fair, get into it.
Speaker 2:I thought it was awful.
Speaker 1:I couldn't get into it either.
Speaker 2:to be fair, and then what we do in the shadows sets itself apart from those two. It does have the delusional, socially unaware, emotionally unintelligent characters, but they're not the main character. The main character is Guillermo the familiar. They kind of inverted it.
Speaker 1:They made every character who's not the main character the oddball character. It's like an interesting approach they had. So I will say what we do in the Shadows. It's funny because they gave it a really high age rating. But they did something I always love in a comedy that I don't see enough of. Continuity is gold in that show. It has a restful development level of commitment to the bit.
Speaker 2:It definitely does commit to bits quite heavily, but I will say so. Then the archetype characters that I dislike. It actually makes sense for them to be that way, because they're vampires that have been alive for hundreds of years, that have been completely uninterested in the comings and goings of humanity. So their lack of social awareness it makes sense.
Speaker 1:So what's funny is there's a line they used in the last season for my favorite character, the Guide. The Guide's my favorite character. I can explain later. She's like wait. So have you guys secretly said a bunch of nice things? Because they literally rolled the footage because they're aware they're on a show. It's like wait. So if you guys secretly said a bunch of nice things because they literally like rolled the footage because they're aware they're on a show, it's like it was just footage of them nice talking someone behind their back and they're like then why are you guys so mean? It's like we're vampires. Of course we're mean and I'm like that encapsulated the show so much. It's like, yeah, no, we put on airs to be mean, we're vampires.
Speaker 2:It's what we do. Oh, and then the punchline to that joke is they were actually talking up the guy to get Colin Robinson to date her Yep. Even still, with Guillermo being the main character, with the terrible archetype characters having sensible reason to be that way, I almost gave up on season one at the end of season one because I felt so bad for Guillermo. I mean, he's still a little bit of a delusional character because he just like Loves his job.
Speaker 1:Did you get too close to the sun on that one?
Speaker 2:He's so naively optimistic and yet consistently proven that his optimism and faith are misplaced and I just feel so bad for how poorly they treat him. And I just feel so bad for how poorly they treat him. No-transcript, and it definitely. It managed to pivot in a very interesting way that kept me interested right to the end.
Speaker 1:So for context, to give a bit of background about these characters in the show we've been talking about for like 20 minutes now. So our core cast we have Guillermo the familiar who is promised that someday he'll be made a vampire. A familiar who has promised that someday he'll be made a vampire, and the thing is there's no evidence to show that they weren't actually intending to someday actually in fact make him a vampire. It's interesting because it's like well, why would anyone put up with this much bullshit? Then we get full episodes of how cool it actually is to be a vampire. The endgame goal of oh, I can fly, turn into a bat, hypnotize people, is pretty great immortality, like.
Speaker 1:there's a lot of upside to that quest yeah but I think what made the show because I agree that I wouldn't have stuck with it nearly as hard as it was just the dunk on guillermo show for five seasons because they decided to like you what, let's make him the most badass character on this show. They like got around to like, okay, it's time now. So then we have Laszlo, who's just Matt Berry playing the character. Laszlo's great Because he's so indifferent to the plot of the show. He's just off living his absolute best life he's just off living his absolute best life.
Speaker 2:Initially, by the end of the series, laszlo's character really grew on me, mostly because it was season three, where he decides to be friends with Colin Robinson, the energy vampire, because he realizes that Colin Robinson is a monster.
Speaker 1:That arc made him for me too.
Speaker 2:Because he realizes that Colin Robinson is going to die. So he decides to tell Colin Robinson the time of his life and then ends up raising him as his son. Yeah, it was. Such a good arc the vampires apparently just get reborn every hundred years.
Speaker 1:There's no reason that. No reason not to. That was just a fair game. But also, I like the main trio. He's like pretty consistently the most empathetic character to other people's plights. Yeah, and then Nandor, my beloved Nandor. My beloved Nandor has done nothing wrong. He just, he just wants things to be nice and clean and orderly. Hashtag Nandor's done nothing wrong. He is a pure, perfect angel and I will take none of this disrespect.
Speaker 2:Uh Uh Well see angel, and I will take none of this disrespect, uh, uh. No, see nandor's character. Um is the steve carell and I feel bad. Maybe I am a sexist monster, but I don't remember the, the actress's name from parks and rec yeah, I don't either.
Speaker 1:I can't bail myself out. I dug myself such a grave on that one who plays leslie nope um, but nandor, is that character archetype? Um, amy paul, uh, amy polar power, amy power.
Speaker 2:anywho, please continue and uh, almost to the end, at the very end in the last episode, guillermo needs his glasses again and Nandor has a pair of Guillermo's glasses and I, uh, I just don't believe that Nandor would not have those glasses. He just wouldn't believe that Nandor would not have those glasses, he just wouldn't.
Speaker 1:He would. Nandor has spent that entire show caring about Guillermo a lot, so let's go back to the first episode where he makes him a glitter painting of the two of them. So here's Nandor's arc. To put Nandor in context, nandor knows Guillermo wants to be a vampire and is his best friend. He also knows Guillermo is a softie and if he becomes a vampire he will starve to death.
Speaker 1:His entire six season long arc was to try and see if he could build up Guillermo to have the will to be a vampire. So almost everything he does is like whenever he teases Guillermo, he's trying to get Guillermo to stand up for himself and if he does, he rewards him, like when he literally is like in a fight, like come on, fight me, come on. Because he knew that his perfect sunshine husband needed to learn to kill, to be a vampire, so like. There's just a lot of moments like where he takes some flying, takes some golfing, listens to him like I don't know. I think he legitimately was like I really want to mentor him into being a vampire, but he's got to change if he wants to be a vampire because he will that you can't be a vegan vampire. There's a lot of, because every time Nandor and Guillermo had a moment when I was doing my watch along with my friend, we would put a ship emoji or a ship gif.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And there was a lot of wholesome moments between the two of them over the runtime of that show. So I fully believe because, as we mentioned earlier, that vampires just choose to be a dick because they're vampires, that's what they do. He absolutely knew in advance this was how it was going to play out. Had two backup plans to bail him out Totally. Would have had the glasses on him because he has cared this entire time. I stand by it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess. So he's just like some of those awesome moments where he's like, ok, nando talks to the camera, he's like, ok, I need to try what they call listening to him, and then he goes in there and he like starts listening and then just like, and I'm done, and just like walks away and it's like, doesn't, doesn't.
Speaker 1:Actually he doesn't give Guillermo any of the emotional support that Guillermo wants ever and I do think it comes from a place of trying to toughen him up to be a vampire, and it's toxic and terrible. And I love it Because, like the moments where he's like respects Guillermo, most is when Guillermo's literally like about to kill him. I really enjoyed the one moment, though it's like you know, I let you live. He's like, oh, it's like, okay, now, that's how you get Nandor's respect. Is you have to walk up and punch him in the face? That's how it works.
Speaker 2:The vampire killer arc being season two, was definitely my favorite. I really liked the vampire killer. I also really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1:I really liked the Vampire Killer. I also really enjoyed the.
Speaker 2:The Sorry go ahead.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say I really also enjoyed the. I have to Hide that I Cheated on my Master Arc because that was just so cheesy and I was like I was so bummed, though, that they walked that back because that was such a like, bold direction to take a show. At that point I'm like I was so bummed, though, that they walked that back because that was such a bold direction to take a show. At that point I'm like, yes, this is a great, great season five twist, Because the season four twist of Baby Colin Robinson was amazing, but the season five twist of I just gave a guy a duffel bag of gas at a gas station to fulfill my dream when the previous season is like, we will tour across my homeland and when I reach the coast, then you will have earned this.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh man, you cheated on him and got a mediocre experience, like that was the punishment. It's like, oh man, you totally you cheated on him and now you just get a feel terrible to be a crappy vampire and you kind of had it coming for not putting trust in this person who does not? Deserve it in any way, shape or form he does not deserve trust.
Speaker 2:No, you know one of my favorite moments like I say, nandor has a reason to be terrible, uh, because, like to him, the the 10-year anniversary uh is like a, uh six, a six-month anniversary for a lot of people, because I do believe a macaroni painting is a good six month anniversary present. I mean, he thought it was a two year anniversary but nonetheless, guillermo was very disappointed at the end of episode one when he got the glitter painting instead.
Speaker 1:But I will say, like for my argument, that Nandor cared the whole time. I'm going to just put this out there. Yeah, being made into a vampire is a sweet gift.
Speaker 2:I can count on less than two hands the number of glitter portraits I've received in my life. Ooh, challenge accepted.
Speaker 1:That is just a quality, thought-filled gift right then and there, like he had to go to the store, he had to get the glitter. There's steps that were involved here.
Speaker 2:He had to get the creepy paper.
Speaker 1:The creepy paper. But yeah, so what we did in the shadows. I didn't really talk about Nadia much, but I really enjoyed three of her arcs. I enjoyed her owning the nightclub and everyone stealing from it. I enjoyed her owning the nightclub and everyone stealing from it. I enjoyed her getting really drunk on drunk blood and just having a relapse. And all of us met the same arc.
Speaker 1:Yes, but all of that concludes with the there was no curse arc, which is just so good. She goes through a whole season trying to cure a curse, to be like there wasn't a curse. You just are a jerk. Your life fell to pieces because you suck. That was the actual moral of the story.
Speaker 2:There was no curse. Arc is a pretty good one, but not just the same terrible, crappy person at the end as she is at the beginning. Uh, I really like, like, is it laszlo's character? Seemed like he had a lot of development, uh, he did seem to go through an arc.
Speaker 1:Colin robertson was an interesting arc uh, he's just.
Speaker 2:He's just such a fantastic character who gets less screen time than the other vampires.
Speaker 1:I think that's important, though, yeah, like I think it's he wouldn't work if he had more screen time yeah, the screen time he has is more poignant because he gets less of it.
Speaker 2:So, I mean as a character, he's In his own words Because he's an energy vampire, so he drains people's energy Instead of draining their blood, and he does this by boring them. But in his own words, he doesn't live to feed, he feeds to live, yep. So then it's like there's the times where it's like he doesn't. He wants some emotional support and everyone thinks he's just trying to bore them.
Speaker 1:But then there's other times where he isn't. He's also the biggest troll in the show too, though.
Speaker 2:No, no, the biggest troll in the show is the literal troll Touche. No, no, the biggest troll in the show is the literal troll Touche, Because Colin Robson tries to feed off of people on comment sections and then one of the people in the comment section gets Colin Robson riled up so he goes to meet the guy in person and it turns out that they're a literal troll. That's just such a good joke. They call it Robinson, drains their energy and bores them until the sun rises and they turn to stone.
Speaker 1:They didn't do anything with that joke where the troll grabs his arm as he's turned into stone, but but still, the thing about what we do in the shadows is, unlike when we talked about Family Guy and its vapid humor, what we Do in the Shadows bothered to write jokes, right. So the office didn't write jokes, it just kind of got.
Speaker 2:They didn't do references, they just did weird zany things.
Speaker 1:Right. And then Parks and Rec didn't really write jokes either. It put in a few, but it mostly didn't really write jokes. A lot of the comedy shows I really love actually have to write the joke Like the siren being a trash seagull. Someone actually had to come up with that to make that funny, right. Like had to come up with that to make that funny, right. Like the, especially the payoff of the. You weren't actually hexed, I just wanted you to pay attention to me. It's just so good because there's a lot of key moments in that episode. Like one of my favorite jokes in that one is so she sets up like the dramatic disappearance for everyone. And then the last was like you know what? They don't don't all have to be clever, it just throws them in a hole uh for for clarification.
Speaker 2:Um, he's not talking about the siren, richard is talking about the guide, I did jump around who is um? I I mentioned the vampire council arc which.
Speaker 2:Which is Season 3. And in Season 3, nandor and friends become the new Vampyr Council, after Guillermo basically slaughters everyone else Like a boss Like a boss. And so then the guide, who is basically the secretary for the Vampiric Council, ends up becoming attached to the group. But they're a little, they're a clique of vampires, so they're reluctant to let the guide into their group. And so then the guide sets up this practical joke of sorts, telling Nadia that she has a hex placed on her and that she needs to be nice to people in order to remove the hex. And it culminates with the guide inviting them all to basically an abandoned mansion and setting traps for them to capture them, because they're all just jerks.
Speaker 1:And it was so justified. They are all, in fact, just jerks. I think the best part about that is the entire point of that episode was to just pull the ripcord on the Guillermo arc. That's true.
Speaker 2:They need to distract us completely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they need to distract us completely so they could drop in the one plot twist. We were waiting for the whole show out of nowhere, Because, yeah, I love a good written joke. I think the thing with to loop back around to Nadia, who we didn't talk about a lot. So I think Nadia she's the worst.
Speaker 1:Well, that's because she's also the character that makes the things happen. So most things that happen are directly Nadia's fault, because you need a character who Thedrics and pushes the button for things to happen. So Laszlo doesn't care, so he only gets involved in things when he has like an emotional reason to do such right and Nandor is too stuck on himself to actually cause things to happen.
Speaker 1:So almost every conflict that's happened is Nadia's fault. Because you need a character to cause conflict to happen. Because if the show was just Laszlo and Colin Robertson, they'd just be chilling. That's what it would be. They'd be living their best lives. Nandor would still be in the yoga cult probably ah, the yoga cult.
Speaker 2:I do wonder what sorts of callbacks they're going to make for season six, because the yoga cult, the siren, you know what was such a good episode when they went on national TV and brainwashed everybody.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite jokes in the show is when they called nandor the relentless nandor d relentless in the subtitles that was pretty funny, like there was just peak humor in that show to be found ah, so yeah, all in all I think I think it was a very fun and interesting show to watch. It was a little bit tough to get through the first season just because they dunk on Guillermo so hard, but it pivots in season two to the Vampire Slayer arc and from there it just keeps going.
Speaker 1:It hits such a good stride. Like I said, my only complaint I have is I. If this was the last episode, if it ended where it did, I'd be so unreasonably mad. Oh, so I love the. Let Guillermo be a vampire to mix up the formula Four seasons in. It was fair game.
Speaker 2:Mm.
Speaker 1:And then it's like, okay, he's gonna be a vampire. Have you tried giving him blood? And I really enjoyed where everyone facepalms Like, oh, yeah, right, that would make sense. And I was thinking the whole show it's like yeah, his vampire fighting power's fighting it off. And Nandor's like yeah, to quote to my Nandor secretly cares about Guillermo theory. Nandor had already accounted for the vampire slayer blood transformation thing, which means he was still planning to actually transform him.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:Like he had this planned out, which is why he's like well, I would kill you then myself. It's fair, fair reaction. And after his epiphany, after throwing his friend off a bridge, that when you throw a friend off your bridge he stops being your friend because you threw him off a bridge. Deep, deep, meaningful stuff there. To have, like Guillermo, end up at the end of the show back as a familiar, I'm like, no, don't do that. No.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, is he just going to be a familiar or is he actually going to be more of a full on? Member of the team.
Speaker 1:So where I think it's going is I think Nandor is going to turn him into the vampire at the very end when he's earned it.
Speaker 2:This time. Right.
Speaker 1:Also, Derek did not deserve to die.
Speaker 2:Well, he only? I really do wonder about that. Um. They established earlier on, um, that when someone becomes a vampire, they're the same person, but not. They don't have a soul, I guess, because they can come back as ghosts of their human selves. Yeah, so for him to die as a vampire and then have his soul put back into the body, to come back as a zombie? There's definitely room for something weird to happen there in season six oh, derek's going to come back.
Speaker 1:There's going to be something with to happen there in season six.
Speaker 2:Derek's going to come back, there's going to be like something with that, but I will say I also hope that there's something with the Colin Robinson being in love with the siren.
Speaker 1:You know, what I also really enjoyed Is that so they explain early. I was like wait, you kill a vampire, turns everyone back to normal. Well, what happens to us? And it's like oh yeah, no, you'll just catch all the, you'll just age instantly. I'm like oh, that's why it was lethal to the original trio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that'd be real bad yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, that's what made that fatal. I get it now I also really enjoy. So he murders all those vampires season two in the Vampira Council, like just murders the entire Vampira Council and then the Baron doesn't learn that till like Season 5? And it's like he did what he opened the door on me, what he did he killed how many members of the Council and the Baron's, just like nah, it just wasn't scary anymore.
Speaker 2:It's not you guys who have gone soft, it is I who have gone soft. I live in the suburbs of New Jersey.
Speaker 1:I also really enjoy that he's called the Baron Because his morph suit had no genitals. That just was such a good joke. They don't call me the baron because I'm nobility and it's like that makes so much sense. It's stupid. How dare, how dare it make that much sense? But with that, any closing thoughts before we go into our random question of the week.
Speaker 2:No, not really. I mean, the only thing I haven't really talked about is how I liked trailer Perk Boys. I don't know if I liked it more than what we do in the Shadows, but I definitely put it above Parks and Rec and the Office because the characters it's not a single antagonist. It's kind of like a dual antagonist situation with Ricky and Julian and then that creates a very interesting dynamic within the mockumentary style that none of the other three what we do in the shadows, parks and rec or the office really, uh, have that same dual antagonist feel to them. I'd say the trailer park boys, I mean I'm a little bit fond of it because it's canadian and I'm canadian, but also as far as mockumentary style shows go, it is actually a pretty interesting watch.
Speaker 1:So I pulled up the list of mockumentary series just to kind of like see if there's anything we missed. And it doesn't have what we do in the shadows listed because they're bad at their jobs. Yeah, but like. So Parks and Rec, I got through, but it definitely upticks later. I never got into Abbott Elementary or Modern Family or Reno 911. Like there's a. This is definitely not my genre At all Because like Trailer Park Boys is there.
Speaker 1:But like they just are missing something. I know they have the Muppets reboot they did recently on here, which might be interesting, honestly but I digress what we do in the shadows did the mockumentary really well, partly because they acknowledged they were doing it. I think that's the biggest thing in these genres. Parks and Rec, for example, was a mockumentary but never explained why anyone was doing the mockumentary format. Same with the Office. They never bothered to explain why this was being recorded or, if they did, it happened so infrequently and so long ago that I lost it.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm pretty sure Steve Carell's character invites the crew to see how awesome he is, and then they just keep filming them for years.
Speaker 1:Which is insane to me. Could you imagine being on that filming crew being like are checks still clearing? They have an episode about how they're going broke and the film crew's like maybe if you didn't pay, a film crew 24-7.
Speaker 2:Modern Family. I've seen a few episodes of the first season so far. It's pretty funny. There's an episode where the one father character he buys his son a bike and then he tells his son your mom thinks you're not responsible, so don't mess this up. And then he's walking down the street and he sees the bike not locked up, so he takes the bike to teach his son a lesson, uh, but it turns out that it was someone else's bike, that's, and then he lets it get. Then he lets it get stolen, so he has to buy a replacement bike. Uh, but then the person who stole that bike from him returns it to him, and so now he has two replacement bikes and he has to try and explain that to his wife, while he has two replacement bikes for a bike that wasn't stolen in the first place that is hilarious.
Speaker 1:On a different note, brooklyn 99 would have been a great mockumentary if they did that format, because everyone would have been wearing cameras yeah, brooklyn 99 is peak um peak comedy too, though like Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Arrested Development.
Speaker 2:Brooklyn Nine-Nine, I think, had a more engaging concept for a wider audience, but I think that, compared to Arrested Development, they're both pretty on par for setup and payoff so this is going to be my sassy comment, my sassy comment where I dunk on Brooklyn Nine-Nine, even though I've watched the show in its entirety, like eight times.
Speaker 1:Brooklyn Nine-Nine had better actors. Arrested Development had better writers. So Brooklyn Nine-Nine, there's entire bits that got carried entirely on the actors' portrayal of those characters, like there's moments where it's like Captain Holt, being Captain Holt Was the joke.
Speaker 2:Where.
Speaker 1:Arrested Development. You didn't really need the actors to deliver them, because the jokes were just so good. They just there's jetpacks and Godzilla.
Speaker 2:It looks like a real city if you squint just such a bad joke, or?
Speaker 1:uh? No, did I say the following term because I'm quoting a show when he just goes? Yeah, that whole arc was retarded. But yes, a random question. This is a weird one. I feel like we're being trolled here, but can lone wolves be?
Speaker 2:part of a team can lone wolves be part of a team?
Speaker 1:that's the question. I don't know if I'm missing context or what. That's all I got. I really hope they win their mug for that.
Speaker 2:I I would say yes, that a lone wolf can be part of a team, Because you don't necessarily need every member of the team to perform, to be together to perform all their perform all their roles in whatever the plan is. So if the lone wolf's objective is to go in and cause a distraction ahead of time or sneak around and attack from the rear or something, the lone wolf can definitely function as a part of a team. But as a character archetype, it's difficult for them to function well in a team.
Speaker 1:So in an animated series from forever ago called Chrome-Shelled Regos, regos, regos I don't remember, what happened was one of the characters was super overpowered and then just kind of left his overpowered city to be a regular smuck in another city, and he gives a speech where effectively is okay, listen, since I have to fight for real now.
Speaker 1:We have to restructure how we do things, cause your goal isn't to kill the monsters, your goal is to set them up so I can kill the monsters, cause I'm better than you guys. I know that sucks to hear, but that's how we do it. If you want to be part of my team, I can't be running around saving you while killing the monsters. You're gonna have to fight differently, and the and world trigger touched on that too a bit where it's like why would you not be in charge of the squad? Well, because then he can focus on doing yuma things. So, from anime point of view, sending out your one lone wolf to do their thing while everyone else does their thing is actually great teamwork.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So I just am like, yeah, no, a lone wolf can be a great part of a team when set up correctly, and I've seen a few good examples of it. However and this is key for playing video games with Panda and his pals, for example you cannot have a team of four lone wolves.
Speaker 2:You don't all get to be the lone wolf.
Speaker 1:Lone wolves work if you have like one or two lone wolves. We go to the Dragon Ball Z tournament of power. They had three lone wolves. That was pushing it a bit. The entire actual moral. They tried to host us at the end of the tournament, which was some bullshit. It's like, jiren, how do you use teamwork? You waited one. Fuck you guys. The first thing you did was split into three. No, you don't get a gift. Goku as a character doesn't get a gift. That you should believe in teamwork speech.
Speaker 2:Goku does not believe in teamwork.
Speaker 1:He hired an assassin to kill him before a team event Like could you imagine if me and you were entering a doubles tournament so you slip redacted 30 bucks to shoot you in the leg to see if you can dodge the bullet?
Speaker 2:and I'm like I guess.
Speaker 1:I'm entering the tournament alone because you paid someone to shoot you who?
Speaker 1:but if it was a doubles tournament like spy family the, the tennis tournament, oh weirdly enough, spy family is a perfect example of lone wolves being part of the team, because both of the Foragers are lone wolves doing lone wolf things as a perfect team with zero communication, because they just enable each other to do their best work. But counterpoint I gave this mini rant earlier and I don't want to go too far over our time, so I was rewatching JJK because they put it out on something.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I realized that annoying anime trope that you have a three-person squad two men, one woman. The woman either ends up as a healer or dead.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And I'm thinking about the Naruto team structure of Sasuke's a lone wolf and Naruto's also a lone wolf and they had a lone wolf fight at the end I'm like, wow, no one learned anything from the show, did they? It's like I know the worst thing you can have is a team of three lone wolves. That's just not interesting at all, interesting at all. But with that, any closing thoughts before we wrap this thing up, about vampires that we kind of talked about but we mostly just dunked on the Office.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because the Office deserves to be dunked on. Sorry, if you're a fan of the Office, well, specifically, if you're a fan of the US version, I mean you probably still like it. I really couldn't give it to the UK version because Ricky Gervais is even more insufferable. But that's just another personal opinion. You should teach their own.
Speaker 1:Fair, where, when we look at what we do in the shadows, their entire cast are gold. I didn't realize how many things until my friend pointed out that Matt Berry, aka Laszlo, had been in that I just loved, as he's just. Yeah, he's in the IT crowd. He did some voice work in Disenchantment. He's my brain's drawing blank because you don't notice he's there, but he's hilarious. In Fallout he was the murder robot that wanted to take someone's bones. Okay, but yeah, no, just a thoroughly entertaining show. I found what we do in the shadows Also every trigger warning, just all of them.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Definitely not for immature audiences if you're offended easily, sucks to be you it really does, though, like the amount of media content, because I even opened with if the content and jokes they put as what we do in the shadows in a manga or anime or comic series, it would be canceled so fast and there'd be such uproar.
Speaker 2:Mm.
Speaker 1:Like Laszlo's hedge garden alone is enough to make people be like ban this show. It was just. It was an hour-long bush joke.
Speaker 2:Oh, the freaking the werewolves, and they throw the squeaky toy off the roof.
Speaker 1:It's so good, so good. I think the most wild thing is that if you turn on the adult settings, you can watch the show on Disney+.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, it is funny.
Speaker 1:Out of most of the things we've reviewed on, this show is probably one of my highest reviewed things. It doesn't compete, though, because it goes in a different category. Right, it's pure comedy at its finest, although it's funny because I've heard people refer to it as British-style comedy, even though it's not British. I don't know how I feel about that rating, but with that, thank you for tuning in to Richard Carl present. Deep space and dragons. There was one character that went to deep space in this episode, so we're clear to go, but there was no dragons yet.
Speaker 2:Just as a little quick correction, it's Carl and Richard, but there was no dragons Yet. Uh, just as a little quick correction, it's Carl and Richard. Present Deep Space and Dragons. We're alphabetical now.
Speaker 1:You know, what's hilarious about that Is that they can see the graphic. You know this right, like there's a certain level of gaslighting you're trying to do here and I respect you for it and if you succeed, all the power to you as you just go in and change it on everything you can find. You know what, just for that. It's just going to say Carl, with a C in the episode description this week. Ooh rough, just you bit at me, man. We were equals and you're like actually you're not the Elite Four champion, there's one more person you have to fight. I'm like why, why are you like this? That's where we're ending on.
Speaker 2:It's here by Gary Oak.
Speaker 1:Hydrate, stay healthy and if you can surf on a gold duck, take that opportunity. Bye. But seriously, why was Blue in the Pokemon Mock so cool?